MY NFA dealer said that once the SBR is deamed an Approved NFA item it has no sporting purpose and aparently you dont have to tell them what length barrel it is after the fact. Also you can have the Upper in your possession before the lower because it is near impossible to prove “intent to create an SBR”.
This is also why the M16’s dont have to write a paper to the NFA branch everytime they change uppers.
Can anyone argue diffrently and show some evidence of the argument?
Thank you once agian in advanced to those that respond.
What i was getting at is the M16’s dont have to write a letter to the batf branch everytime they change upper lengths and the SBR (not full Auto) falls under the same catagory.
The fact that it may not be possible to prove that you knowingly & intentionally possesed a SBR prior to having an approved stamp does not negate the fact that constructive or physical possession of said item before hand is still illegal. Yes, it’s tough for a federal agency such as the BATF&E to keep tabs on every AR owner that may have an unauthorized item in their possession, however, now you know & I personally wouldn’t want to take the chance. Get your stamp first & then buy as many uppers that you want for each registered lower you own.
As far as an M16 writing a letter to the BATF&E to advise of an upper change, is that possible? Are you asking does the owner have to write them to advise? I think you are supposed to, but I’ve never heard of it being a problem if you don’t. Just follow the instructions on the Form 1 & you will be ok as long as the new or swapped barrel length is in excess of what you already have registered. If you want to go shorter than what you have registered then you have to pay another $200 on another lower IIRC & list the shorter lenght.
I’ve never listed OAL & have always listed barrel length at 7" as well. All of us at work have done this & the forms were approved in less than 30 days accompanied with a dept. letterhead advising our intent & request for expedited processing. No Form 1’s have been returned for clarification or correction in the process either.
Also just for clarification Gunny I have the Approved Tax Stamp and the Approved SBR in hand, the issue is having an upper that is shorter then the length listed on the form. Im planning on looking into becoming a police officer in the next 4 years (gotta finish college and some personal stuff) no weapon is worth ruining that chance.
I think i will write the ATF a curtorsy letter and just say 7 inches.
gunny,
So are you saying that if someone gets their NFA Tax Stamp for a SBR, then you can purchase MULTIPLE SBR uppers for a single lower???
That’s what your post sounds like to me, but maybe I’m way off here. ???
I thought EACH SBR (upper) had to have it’s own $200 NFA Tax Stamp, so in other words, EACH time you want to purchase an upper with a bbl less than 16", you had to pay $200 for another tax stamp…
???
Is this correct or what???
Also, can anyone here tell me if the required process to purchase an RDIAS (Registered Drop In Auto Sear) is the SAME process as purchasing a SBR or Suppressor?? (IOW, is it possible to also use Trust method, where you have to purchase a $200 NFA stamp???)
OR, is the process/legal route for a RDIAS DIFFERENT from that of suppressors and SBR’s???
his post to me sounds like im screwed because i got 3 Colt 6921’s all with 14.5 inch barrels that i cant do anything with because i cant use shorter barrels and i have a 9.25 inch upper with no home.
Paul…Neg, you don’t have to pay for an additional stamp each time you want to swap uppers on an already registered lower. For example, you have one registered lower & you listed a barrel length of 10" on your first & only Form 1 X years ago. You have BRD real bad this year & want a BCM 11.5" & 14.5"…You can buy them & add to your already registered SBR lower, no sweat w/out having to register another lower. I need to clarify this, but if you wanted to go shorter than what you origonally registered on a Form 1 then you would not be able to do so legally w/out registering another lower to put it on IIRC. However, you may be able to circumvent the latter scenario by contacting the ATF to annotate the shorter barrel length.
I’ve never had the need or want to go shorter than that yet even though 7" is the shortest barrel length I’ve listed on my Form 1’s just in case I ever decide that’s what I want. I’ve registered a few lowers as insurance due to the type of work I do since I’m afraid one may be destroyed. People are totalling our squads in crashes more frequently than the city would like & a few rifles have already had to have been written off:mad: I don’t wanna be SOL if that happens so a few SBR lowers are a good idea for me.
If you are a millionaire & want to go FA then I believe it’s Form 4 transfer. You cannot manufacture your own FA on a weapon manufactured prior to 5/1986 is what I was told. You can buy one that was made before that time & have it transferred to you on a Form 4 stamp plus pay the multi thousands of dollars in addition to buy the gun itself. But, I’m not sure about what it takes to legally have a drop in sear. I don’t want to give you bad info on the FA route so someone with diffinent knowledge on that matter, please add what you know.
It used to be possible to register an SBR with rather vague terminology like “under 16 inches”, and people would do that to cover their ass if they wanted to swap out their uppers to various lengths. Lately (as in, the last couple of years) the ATF has cracked down on this and you must put an actual barrel length in the box.
Frankly though, I’ve never understood why people would want to change out to multiple different barrel lengths all on the same lower. I guess it’s a cost issue with paying the $200 to register additonal lowers?
Still, I can’t really imagine the ATF making a case against someone that registered an SBR with a 10.5" barrel and put a 7.5" upper on it.
and Paul, as has already been posted and just to second it, it’s the lower that’s the regsistered SBR, not the upper.
let me get this right then. It is better just to register your SBR as having the smallest barrell length that you would ever put on it and then you wouldnt have to worry about putting a larger one on??
IE registers at 7.5 and not worry about putting a 10 on?
I’m still new to this NFA/Title II thing (my first SBR is approved but still unfinished) but I was under the impression that you only had to notify the ATF if you make any permanent modifications to the weapon as it is listed on your Form 1. Since swapping an upper is not considered a permanent modification, do you really need to worry about it?
I’m aware that you can always CYA by sending them a notification/addendum/whatever that says what additional new barrel-length uppers you acquire. I’m guessing they just add that paperwork to your file. Is that a good idea? Or is that unnecessary?
I sent a letter to ATF for each of my SBRs telling them other barrel lengths that I’ll ever use on them. They sent back a confirmation. It may not be required but what’s it gonna hurt?
I’ve been doing this for the past year - last one was approved just about a month ago (and in only 11 days). From what I’ve heard, the ATF is actually approving more forms like this than they did in the past.
Frankly though, I’ve never understood why people would want to change out to multiple different barrel lengths all on the same lower. I guess it’s a cost issue with paying the $200 to register additonal lowers?
While I can’t speak for everyone, flexibility is the main reason for me. I don’t do it because I plan on having 15 uppers for the same lower, but needs and wants change after time. The last lower that I SBR’ed is setup in a 9mm configuration. Maybe a year or two from now I decide that I don’t want an extra 9mm gun anymore and I decide to change it to a 6.8 SPC. If I only listed one caliber and length on my Form 1, then “technically” I’d be stuck with a lower that should only be used in that specific configuration - whereas with the “not so specific” info, I’m pretty much free to do as I please.
You DO NOT need to go through another lower and another registration process just to use a shorter upper. You SHOULD write them the letter they ask for though any time you change whether it be shorter or longer I suppose.
Rob- what are you doing with three 14.5" uppers? hanging onto them for kicks? I wouldn’t see a problem with that as long as you don’t have one SBR lower and two ‘regular’ lowers with no uppers and wear marks on the mounting points
One trick for next time - for length and barrel size just put “under 26 inches” and “under 16.”
I also put 5.56mm/9mm/6.8mm so if I ever want a different caliber upper, I’m covered.
It is just about added flexibility. If you can do it, why not? This way if for some reason, I ever want or need to throw on a different upper, I’m covered.
Remember, the lower receiver is the actual firearm, and is the only thing registered. I believe you can switch barrel lengths to whatever you want. An SBR is a rifle with a barrel length of under 16" or overall length under 26, " so once you have a tax stamp for an SBR, you should be good to go. I can’t say for absolute certainty however, so I’d call NFA
They’re actually very helpful and can answer your question for sure.
NFA Branch 304 616-4500
ETA:
Someone was asking about registered drop in auto sears. If the sear is registered, it is the “machine gun” itself. You can put it in a post 1986 upper and still be legal. However, I believe they cost around $10,000 - $15,000 last I heard, so you might as well just buy a pre 1986 M16. http://www.quarterbore.com/nfa/dias.html
Again, check with the ATF first.
We addressed all of your comments on generic sizes and anymore, you can’t just put generic numbers in all of the spaces to CYA in every manner. You need to put specifics that you can add to at a later point in time.
