I may need some legal advice here. A quick background first. I’ve been looking for a registered M16 and don’t want to pay retail for one. One of my clients (I’m a veterinarian) just told me that she “thinks” she may have one. Her parents both passed away recently, and she inherited a gun collection, and she is pretty sure her father had an M16 in the collection. Now, assuming this is a registered form 4 gun, and is registered to her father (now deceased) as an individual, how can I obtain the gun on a legal transfer? I can get CLEO signatures no problem on my end since I always get my NFA items on individual transfers. The problem is, if he didn’t do a trust long ago, how can this weapon be transferred to me legally? I would be getting the gun at a bargain basement price, so I don’t want to pass this up as long as the gun is legally registered right now.
I will post more information as soon as I have it. I’m crossing my fingers that this is a dream come true.
Assuming the M16 is not already in a trust but is registered with the ATF, I believe she would have to do a tax-free inheritance transfer on a Form 5 to put the weapon in her legal possession. Once that’s done, I believe it would be just like any other private sale on a Form 4.
I think I would be reading the Handbook very closely and I am sure it wouldn’t hurt to contact an NFA attorney just to be sure.
NFA owners die just like everyone else, and the NFA Branch works on these cases frequently. As Kry226 mentioned, I’d contact an NFA attorney to cover all your bases.
So does she know what a transferable M16 is actually worth?
+1 for contact an NFA attorney. This kind of thing happens all the time, and there is an easyish way to handle it, but if she messes it up, it’s possible the gun could become forfeit to ATF…and a transferable M16 out of the pool would be a crying shame.
As soon as I ascertain that the weapon is legally registered I will contact an ATF attorney here in Florida, and will also contact the NFA branch of ATF. Right now there are too many unanswered questions about the weapon to make sure it’s ok.
She has no idea what such a weapon is actually worth.
You’ve got it backwards - you have the LAWYER find out if the weapon is legally registered (provided there’s no paperwork you can find). If the inquiry comes from a lawyer (i.e. “Is there a Colt M16 serial number XXXXX on the NFRTR?”) no one is on the hook if it is not registered, and you can dispose of it appropriately. If YOU do it, you (or she) could be on the hook for possession of an unregistered NFA item.
I see your point, however I just don’t have enough information one way or the other right now. As soon as she gets back to me I will contact an appropriate attorney regarding the serial number. She is up in Chicago for a week then I should know more. Thank God I don’t live in that city of Draconian laws.
If she’s unfamiliar with the difference, it could turn out to be an ordinary AR-15.
I hope not because its always nice to hear of these ‘barn finds’. Keeps the hopes of us poor folks alive.
Well I know I can get it way cheap by standards today, but it’s getting the cart before the horse to start discussing money until I know that it is indeed an M16, and indeed legally registered as such. Like was said in a prior post, I hope it’s not an AR-15. Though, this person knows I collect machine guns, and she knows the difference.
Like I said before, when I know more information I’ll post it. I hope I don’t end up with egg on my face but if it turns out to be the real deal, I’ll let you know what I end up paying for it.
Great deals/steals do exist. I just missed out on another client of mine that sold an MP5 on a form 4 just a couple weeks before he knew I would have purchased it, and he sold it for 3,400 dollars. Yeah, that’s right, three thousand four hundred dollars. I wanted to cry. This was 8 months ago.
Here’s hoping you get a deal. I cringe every time I hear about one, because I can never seem to luck into one. A buddy of mine got an MP-40 from an estate sale for $4,000 one time. Even though it was a tube gun, it was built on an early Steyr parts kit, and ran like a top.
The information below is assuming the gun is lawfully registered and possessed.
If she is the executor of the estate she can transfer the gun to you. You will have to pay the $200.00 tax. If she were transferring it to herself as an inheritance she could do so tax free. Below is an excerpt from the Form “4” instructions. Line 3a is the transferor’s name.
2 k. Estates. If the firearm is being transferred from an estate, item 3a shall reflect: the executor’s name, title (executor (or executrix, administrator, administratrix) of the estate of (name)), and the executor’s address. Item 3c shall reflect the address of the decedent and the date of death. (see the ATF Internet website at www.atf.gov for additional information about
transfers from estates.)
Sorry for taking awhile to get back on this issue. I have been informed by the owner that it is indeed an M16, and is indeed registered as such. She has told me that she’s going to sell it to me. The delay has been her life right now, getting all the estate issues taken care of and her little chihuahua has kidney stones that I’m dealing with. Here’s the deal. As long as I keep this little dog alive, I’m going to get this rifle at a complete steal. Crazy situation. Collapsing trachea, and bilateral calcium oxylate kidney stones. Not an ideal patient, it weighs less that 4 lbs. Keeping a tiny dog alive is the difference between me getting a very cheap M16 and not getting one. Will let everyone know more developments as they occur.
LOL. I better leave the country if this little dog dies!! Seriously, this owner expects me to keep her 11 year old dog alive for another 5 to 6 years. That’s a tall order, given bilateral kidney stones (probably calcium oxylate, which will NOT dissolve) and a collapsing trachea. Only thing I can do is put the dog on a special diet which I already did, and give it anti-inflammatory drugs. There is a new technique with laser lithotrypsy that may work, but it’s not available yet. University of Florida will have it soon, so until it’s available, not much I can do. My hope is that she finishes all this probate stuff, but she’s been slow in doing so. When it’s done, I get to start my rifle transfer. So I better not F*** up in treatment at least until all this is said and done. Why is nothing in life ever easy?
