Lately, I’ve seen - and heard of - some differences between newer production Smiths and some of the older versions. Some guys I work with bought a few after I gave them a thumbs up based on an older sample. This chaps my ass, because their guns are not as nicely equipped as the ones I based my opinion on.
Can anyone list the differences they are aware of? Maybe even less obvious things like cheaper internal parts sources. Is S&W going lower-tier on us?
What is it you think they changed? And why is it you think they’re going down in quality?
My buddy has an “older” one made a couple years ago and my other buddy a “newer” one about a month old and they both appear to be top notch. What differences do they think there are?
I could be wrong, but the only difference between an older 15A and a newer 15A is that the newer 15A will have M4 feed ramps, depending on when it was built. Between the two I would take the newer one with M4 feed ramps.
I was under the impression the newer models were improvements over the original ones. I have a 4 digit serial number M&P that was made by STAG with the CMT crappy staking on the gas key, but the buffer tube is milspec and staked well. I have read that S&W used LMT bolts for a while and makes most of the rifle in house now. I haven’t seen a brand new one in a while to compare mine with since the shops I frequent are out of everything. David
There is a difference between build versions of the same model, and different models. There are lots more models of the M&P15 than their used to be. The newer builds of the same model are generally better than the older builds of the same model; i.e, 15A to 15A or 15T to 15T.
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A friend of mine just bought a new M&PT and it had a DPMS LPK installed.:eek:
This is one of the more troubling things I’d heard - not DPMS specifically, though - just that the LPK was being sourced on the cheap. I’ve heard noises about barrels and changes to what is and isn’t done “in-house” also. The BCGs have definitely taken a hit.
I’ve quit recommending them due to the above.
Let this be a lesson, however. Those that are required to keep to a standard, do so. Those that aren’t…
Note that even LMT is shipping now with a semi-auto carrier. While I would still recommend an LMT, and don’t think that a shrouded semi is really much worse than a full, it’s an example of what happens to even the best of intentions when there is no requirement to meet a standard.
It’s too bad the market has gone to hell in a handbasket, otherwise I’d be sorely tempted to just chuck everything for a pair of 6920s and keep one 6933, now that Colt seems to be on board with the .154/5 FCG pins.
The LPK was always sourced to somebody, no? Who was it sourced to before and why is it a problem now?
Last I heard, the barrels were coming from TC.
My 15A bought 4/08 did come with a LMT bolt, but the carrier was a shrouded semiauto, not M16.
Why is having a semi-auto carrier a disadvantage in a semi-auto rifle?
I was kind of afraid this was the route this discussion would take…
It’s not so much of a disadvantage as it is “less than ideal”. Which isn’t the point though. The point is that they were doing one thing and are now doing another, with the replacement being generally considered a lesser (however slightly) option than the part it replaces.
Colt changes things too. They’re machining their safety selectors so they can be changed to the opposite side, and they’re going to the smaller .154/5" pins, both of which are generally considered to be better (however slightly) options.
BTW, Rob, The Chart still shows the M&P15 bolt carrier as M16.
S&W is actually going up in quality (not down).
The AR’s put out by them now are very good quality IMHO.
C4
S&W makes several lower components in house (FYI).
C4
The BCG’s are the best they have ever been IMHO.
They are HPT/MP tested with black extractor insert and Crane O-Ring. They are also staked properly.
C4
About DPMS lower internals, I don’t think potentially having to spend $50 on a LPK would keep me from buying or recommending a firearm that is of overall good quality.
I’ve got a M&P15T that I purchased back around the first of 08’ IIRC, and it’s SN is 70xxx, and it’s got all the improvements as far as I know:
>It has the S&W built lower,
>It has the pinned Troy gas block, not bolt-on,
>Appears to have an LMT BCG, Enhanced semi-auto (has the firing pin shroud like the full-auto version, but doesn’t have the extra meat on the back like a full-auto, this is probably why rob_s listed them as full-auto on his chart, the “enhanced” AR15 BCG has more in common with the M16 version than the AR15 version, IMO), and has the upgraded extractor parts,
>It’s gas key is staked very nicely,
>It has mil-spec buffer tube with a properly staked nut,
>Has the Troy MRF with the bolt, rather than the little spring-loaded push pin for lower-half disassembly,
As far as my LPK, when I compare it to my brother’s Colt, or my buddy’s LMT, there seems to be no difference - it’s just you’re basic, run of the mill single stage heavy, creepy AR trigger, about 7# pull, but it’s still heads and tails better feeling than a DPMS trigger! How would one tell who made they’re LPK??
IMHO if S&W would offer the M&P’s in both 1/9" and 1/7" twists, to suit everyone, it would be a hard AR15 to beat!
In another post you opine that the new SA BCGs are “better” than the older FA ones. The older ones I saw had all the quality features of the newer SA ones, so how are they “the best” S&W has put out?
Can you enlighten us as to what other quality indicators are going up? Besides M4 cuts, which may or may not matter to a given user.
I only handle new ones about once a month, so I may be missing something that a dealer-who makes his living selling them- is aware of.