New York, Pennsylvania Consider Restricting Sales of Body Armor

Hmm…

Shooting rampages in Pennsylvania and New York could become a rallying point for state lawmakers to restrict sales of body armor.

In both cases, the April 3 shooting rampage that claimed 13 lives in a Binghamton immigration center and the April 4 slayings of three Pittsburgh police officers answering a domestic call ? heavily armed men braced themselves for gunfights with bullet-resistant vests.

It never came to that in Binghamton. Jiverly Wong, 41, a Vietnamese immigrant, took his own life after killing 13 unarmed civilians, authorities said.

But in Pittsburgh, police Chief Nate Harper said alleged gunman Richard Poplawski, 22, wore body armor that deflected at least two shots to his chest during a deadly assault on officers that lasted nearly four hours.

Federal law bars people convicted of violent felonies from purchasing body armor. In Pennsylvania and most other states, it is against the law to wear such armor while committing a crime.

The vests Jiverly and Poplawski wore are readily available to the public. Although most Pittsburgh area retailers no longer carry body armor ? and two who do sell only to police ? online seller eBay offers scores of vests costing $50 to $200.

In New York, Assemblyman David Koon of Rochester introduced legislation in January to restrict the sale of body armor to law enforcement officers. Koon said the shootings in Pittsburgh and Binghamton illustrate the dangers posed to law enforcement officers when body armor gets into the hands of those bent on violence.

“Evidence suggests that more and more drug dealers, gang members and professional criminals are purchasing and utilizing body armor,” he said.

Officer Rob Harrison, range master at the Pittsburgh Police Academy and an officer since 1985, said training police to prepare for that possibility has become crucial.

“More and more people are found wearing body armor, and depending on age and condition, it can withstand bullets from a variety of handguns,” Harrison said.

But Kim Stolfer of MacDonald, a National Rifle Association firearms training counselor, said private citizens ranging from pizza deliverymen to children who attend violence-plagued schools rely on the vests for protection.

“Do we take that away from them, or do we have government do its job?” Stolfer said.

Rep. Tom Caltigirone, D-Reading, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, said recent events appear to illustrate weakness in the law regarding the sale of body armor.

“What purpose does body armor serve outside of law enforcement? There may be a bill,” Caltigirone said.

Lee Guelff would be delighted to see such a bill become law.

The California advertising executive spent years fighting to restrict the purchase of body armor after his brother Jim, a San Francisco police officer, was killed in 1994 by a carjacker outfitted in a high-quality vest and bulletproof helmet.

“He shot the guy several times and was in the process of reloading when the guy shot him in the head,” Guelff said.

In 2002, Congress agreed to bar violent felons from buying body armor.

Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell said unlimited access to handguns and body armor are intertwined issues that should be addressed.

“If the Philadelphia delegation and the Allegheny County delegation got together and said, ‘We’re not doing anything else until you pass some sensible gun laws,’ if both of those delegations had the guts to do it, they could bring state government to a standstill until reasonable gun laws were passed,” the governor said.

These situations as unfortunate as they are shows the big wigs in charge of training for Officers to focus on more proper training. I highly doubt a Patrolman on average is adequately ready for a shooter who has body armor and firepower that can out match a standard issued sidearm. Can any officers here weigh in on how much training time they get outside the academy?

What about EP/CP personnel? What about private security personnel who either have to purchase their own or are not happy with what their company may give them? What about personnel who may be security contractors working overseas and they reside in those states? As soon as they wrap a LEO or MIL only tag on their other law abiding citizens are going to get screwed.

As the article states it is already against federal law and many states laws to wear body armor in the commission of a crime.

it’s kind of a pointless law.

restrict the sale of body armor in NY and PA?

take a long drive and shop elsewhere.

True but, then the AG’s of those states can appear to be doing something by sending unlicensed private investigators to gin up evidence to support civil suits they’ll file against out-of-state businesses. Oh wait, that’s already happened hasn’t it?

Even if they did make some retarded law about making Body armor Leo/mil only, criminals will still get their hands on it.

It’s dependent on the agency. We have to shoot 4 times a year for a total of 200 rounds for the year. Officers are given the oppertunity to shoot the state qual course (50 rounds) once a month. Very few officers seek/recieve more training than that

I.N., do you have the link to the source of the articel you posted? Thanks.

As soon as I heard that Wong had body armor on, the first thing I said was the state will now pass legislation to heavy restrict the sale of body now. It is already a Felony in NYS to wear body armor during the commission of a crime.

Anyone planning on getting body armor in those states had better get on it quickly, or be without.

well, it certainly makes ME feel better that you will easily do that in a half day of training. :stuck_out_tongue:

IIRC, Al Gore attempted to make civilian ownership of body armor a national vote magnet at some time after the North (?) Hollywood shoot out.

The issue went basically nowhere and V. President Gore lost the election. It was a close call.

It can be useful to watch the video’s of the incident.

So first NY want my assault rifle so I cannot protect my family. Now they want my body armor. What ever happened to LIFE liberty and the persuit of happiness?
This is from a state that was one of the 13 colonies ?
How am I to protect my family in the future ? Especially since the current administration is doing everything they can to make things bad for the people of this country ? I probably need to move my family to IRAQ to the STAN at lest then I would be allowed to defend them with modern equipment.

Interesting reference from Heller vs. D.C.

http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/07-2901.pdf

Page 10:

Timothy Cunningham’s important 1771 legal dictionary defined “arms” as “any thing that a man wears for his defence, or takes into his hands, or useth in wrath to cast at or strike another.”

I wonder if body armor is actually covered by Heller.

Both the Second Chance Club and the Kevlar Survivors’ Club include members who were saved in non-firearms incidents including automobile accidents.

The tie-in here is that bullet resistant gear has civilian safety applications.
Hurt is hurt , dead is dead , and political attempts to freeze-dry the classes of protective technology that can be owned by citizens could drive some serious unintended problems.

Or take a short walk to your computer, go to Ebay or an online vendor via your computer and buy it there.

yea, those pesky lil rascals can get their hands on some serious shit. are cops allowed to carry addictional protection, if its not issued? like a kevlar helmet they bought at a gun show?..
… how about we just beef up officers instead, put an m4 in their trunk with about 240 rounds of 556, a kevlar helmet and maybe some sort of sapi plate carrier to throw over their concealed vests. kind of a just incase. and maybe an espresso machine.

http://www.tactical-life.com/online/news/new-york-pennsylvania-consider-restricting-sales-of-body-armor/

I’m not sure how it is with the LEO side of the house but I know for military anything outside of issued gear in regards to protection is a no go. Like the whole big deal the Army had with Dragonskin. They were saying anyone who wore those they would void your SGLI. If it was my way I would of had a Ciras vest in Iraq. Those MTV’s they issued us were crap, like wearing a big cloth barrel with molle on it. :mad:

Thank you.

lemme make sure i understand their logic…

“criminals are becoming more dangerous, so we need to make sure their potential victims do not have body armor.”

i see…makes pefect sense to me…

:rolleyes:

yea man, dragon skin (after watching alot of military channel haha) seemed to be the best bet against any armor out there. i wish it were availiable for purchase. right now im using the paraclete RAV. with kevlar inserts and plates… even tho im not in the service… i definitely would be if my band hadn’t taken off in the music industry… i still think about being an 11b everyday. maybe one day if were not fukin U2 when all the music is said and done, maybe i can still join…