Works great–just as advertised. I hate trimming brass, and the X-dies remove that chore (once you’ve done the initial trimming).
Though I believe your neck walls will gradually get thicker. The brass still flows when you size but there is a barrier in the die that keeps it from stretching out soy it just accumulates…
The X-die must substantially slow down the movement of brass to the neck otherwise you would get case head weakening at the same rate as without the X-die.
Instead, those who have tested case life with the X-die found they got 15-20 reloads and basically just gave up trying to wear out the cases.
Do you have experience that indicates case life is not extended with the X-Die?
I don’t think I made that claim.
The X die works by putt a mechanical block at the top that prevents the case (flowing brass) from elongating – it hits that wall. So as the case elongates the brass gathers at the top (mechanically speaking from theory – I don’t use one).
It would be interesting to do a test of a large enough sample.
btw I started using a Lyman M die to expand the neck back out. Supposedly it works the brass less than a normal FL size expander ball. I size in the dillon size/trim die and then expand the neck out with the M die instead of a FL sizer and neck expansion ball…
Sorry, I guess I don’t understand your point. If brass moved to the neck in an X-die at the same rate as with a regular resizing die, then the head area would weaken at the same rate and cases would fail there after the same number of reloadings.
However, since with the X-Die you can get many more reloadings per case, then the brass CANNOT be moving to the neck as fast as it does with regular resizing dies.
If your point is simply that some movement of brass, albeit at a slower rate, moves to the neck and you may need to ream it someday, then I agree.
The benefit of the X-die is that you trim once and don’t need to again, and you can get many more reloadings per case. I have not read of any test in which someone has been able to reload with the X-Die to case failure (due to case head separation), but have loaded as many as 20 times before giving up.
That is indeed what happens.
You know that nice chamfer you put on the case mouth? After a shoot-load cycle or two that chamfer goes away. If you are shooting FMJ or tough boat tails like that I guess it doesn’t matter. But if you are shooting softer jacketed bullets like J4s or other match bullets, the case shaves jacket material off the bullet when you seat the bullets.
So, you have to chamfer again.
Do you have verifiable and reliable data that this is actually true? Do you really get more loadings? Have you taken say 200 cases, divided them in half, and reloaded them a bunch of times, half with X-Die, and half with FL sizer and regular trimming and them kept accurate measurements on case head dimensions (thickness etc)?
Using the same load in all cases for every round. Better, do it twice – once with 223 loads and once with 556 loads
Just wondering… I have not done it either but I am not claiming less or more reloads from the same brass using one or the other.
If your point is simply that some movement of brass, albeit at a slower rate, moves to the neck and you may need to ream it someday, then I agree.
The benefit of the X-die is that you trim once and don’t need to again, and you can get many more reloadings per case. I have not read of any test in which someone has been able to reload with the X-Die to case failure (due to case head separation), but have loaded as many as 20 times before giving up.
I have not done this myself, but I have read some articles by guys who have tested the X-die and reported getting 15-20 reloads on .308 and .30-06 and just giving up. I could Google it again, but so could you if you are really interested.
Of course a shady company like RCBS could be blowing smoke too.
Have you actually measured the thickening of case necks after each resizing in an X-die or is that just speculation?
I don’t doubt that they do. But I could load and depending on load get 15-20 without using an X-die. A moderate load in a bolt action with tighter target chamber won’t get as much stretching on sizing as a lose semi auto hot load will. And 223 are different than 308 / 3006.
Of course a shady company like RCBS could be blowing smoke too.
Why would you say that? I am not doubting that the X-die saves you from trimming as much. I am just saying you need to be aware that you will eventually get excess material in your neck. It may or may not give you more loads. I would like to see verifiable and scientifically rigorous tests to show that.
Have you actually measured the thickening of case necks after each resizing in an X-die or is that just speculation?
I don’t have an X-die so have never done it. As I mentioned in a previous response
it was speculation on my part. However, I have read reports from others a while back that mentioned the thickening of the neck walls.
The brass will flow when you size it and based on how the X-die works – it basically sticks a block that prevents the elongation of the brass – the brass has to end up somewhere…
From a previous post
The X-Die was not intended to replace neck sizing only of cases. I think you know that, being in the business. Your apples-to-oranges comparison actually reinforces the utility of the X-Die for situations in which you should full length size. If full length sizing with an X-Die gives you as many reloads as you can get just neck sizing, then I would say that is a pretty good deal.
You can only neck size if you are loading for a bolt or single action rifle and for just one specific rifle, unless you luck out and get two or more rifles with the same headspace on the shoulders. If you shoot for multiple rifles, semi autos, lever actions or pumps then you should FL size.
Eventually you may need to ream the necks although none of us know when that would be needed, just eventually. This statement is useless without any information to back up after how many reloadings that will occur. Eventually my barrel will wear out as well. My point is that obviously brass is flowing to the neck at a rate much less than with normal FL sizing since the case head thinning is not occurring as quickly as without
of course. Why are you bringing up neck sizing? I never once talked about neck sizing.
Your apples-to-oranges comparison actually reinforces the utility of the X-Die for situations in which you should full length size. If full length sizing with an X-Die gives you as many reloads as you can get just neck sizing, then I would say that is a pretty good deal.
Again, I made no apples to oranges comparison. I never once mentioned neck sizing. I only mentioned that some sorts of rifles will cause brass to stretch more when sized than others will.
You can only neck size if you are loading for a bolt or single action rifle and for just one specific rifle, unless you luck out and get two or more rifles with the same headspace on the shoulders. If you shoot for multiple rifles, semi autos, lever actions or pumps then you should FL size.
Thanks for the lesson. I never once brought up neck sizing. Why are you muddying the conversation talking about neck sizing?
Eventually you may need to ream the necks although none of us know when that would be needed, just eventually.
HelloLarry seemed to think that it is after a shoot load cycle or two. That at least you need to re-chamfer because of brass flow.
This statement is useless without any information to back up after how many reloadings that will occur.
It is infinitely more useful than your statement that the X-Die means you can get more loadings out of your brass than FL sizing and trimming. It may be true, but you have presented ZERO evidence of it despite being asked repeatedly for said evidence.
Eventually my barrel will wear out as well. My point is that obviously brass is flowing to the neck at a rate much less than with normal FL sizing since the case head thinning is not occurring as quickly as without
Evidence please. You claim it is so but have presented no verifiable evidence. Specifically with 223 since that is the topic of this thread. Preferably fired out of a NATO specced 5.56 chamber AR15.
X-Die may slow brass thinning in the case head area on a 223. But you have presented no evidence at all that it is such. When you size you get brass flow and the brass has to go somewhere.
I was reading up on reloading because my MidwayUSA package arrived today 
and I will start reloading tomorrow. I was just wondering if I need a tool to install primers. I have been using a hand priming tool and do it while watching TV but on large rifle calbers(3006, 308, 243). It looks too big for the smaller 223 and small rifle primers. I also have a priming tool that is part of my Rockchucker Press, but it looks too big too. I looked on MidwayUSA’s site and the priming tools don’t come in different sizes. Just wondering. . .
Hey, you admit to speculation on your part on this topic. You claim/speculate there is more neck thickening yet have no idea at what rate or when it becomes significant. We both know that chamfering has nothing to do with whether case necks have thickened or not to any significant degree. Proper chamfering should not change case neck thickness at all.
I did my own research before starting to use the X-die. I easily found a couple of extensive tests in which the reloaders gave up after 15 or 20 reloads and still had not reached case failure.
In case your Google Fu is weak:
http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=18155
http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/ammo-can/134281-x-die-experiments.html
Larry Gibson is one guy who hs done extensive testing. A quote from his test (first link)
At #12 is where I detected a thickening (.001”) of the case necks in the shoulder area which tapered forward. Again this did not effect concentricity or accuracy.
A quote from another guy regarding case neck thickening:
I don’t know. Maybe the metal flows back when it’s fired, since the brass is malleable?
EDIT: Called RCBS to find out some stuff (talked to a wonderful service rep). Here’s what she told me:
No, the case neck won’t thicken–the X-Die is supposed to prevent that, it redistributes the brass, doesn’t allow it to thicken the neck.
The variation in growth is a function in variation in brass, all should stabilize just fine.
The “shorties” are simply because of the particular brass, some won’t expand back when fired as much as others do. She said to just shoot 'em.
The rep said the only complaint she’s received in 10 years about the X-Die is that it doesn’t come in more calibers.
She also said it’s shocking to them that it’s not better known. When it came out it came out mid-year so it wasn’t promoted at shotshow or similar, and thus wasn’t apparent to many people.
The last thing she said was that when the techs would test it, they’d put in a case, run it, and after it would come out they’d examine the length with calipers–and just shake their heads that it came out the same length.
In all of my searching the only disparaging comments (relatively few) I found were by guys speculating it shouldn’t work. Not one case in which someone had done real tests and found it lacking.
This is not exactly true. The reason you have to rechamfer periodically is because the brass flow has moved to the neck and gotten rid of your chamfer.
I did not say that the X-die did not work. I only said that the brass has to flow somewhere and I had read at one time that it thickened necks slowly. Then I read from RCBS website how they work and speculated further that they would thicken based on how they stop the brass from getting longer. Your people you quote showed that they do actually thicken some.
They have a stop at the end that prevents the brass from getting longer. You take a soft material and push it up against a hard stop and it bunches up. It is possible that other aspects of it limit that somehow. That is all fine and dandy.
Great we are making progress. Neck thickens due to brass flow = yes, but minimal amount. Which I never denied, I just speculated it must be a lot slower than without the X-die and using regular FL sizing. Larry Gibson found it to be .001 inch after 12 reloads. So I think I stand validated in my prediction that brass flows more slowly to the neck.
If you need to normally chamfer to seat flat based bullets, then, yes you will need to do so with the X-die as well. I don’t believe ANYONE, especially RCBS, ever claimed it eliminated all case preparation steps. Just that you won’t need to trim again and that you will most likely get significantly more reloadings than compared to using a regular FL resizer for the same chamber(s).
And I provided links to a few of the many easily searched for hands-on tests reloaders have done to document extended case life compared to their FL sizing in the same rifles.
I think I stand vindicated in my original statements regarding no more trimming, extended case life, and slower/reduced flow of brass to the case neck thickness. As I have said before, I have do not have my own proof yet (no more than 3 reloadings of my hundreds of .223 and .30-06 cases so far), but this is what my own research indicated.
I think it remarkable with the large amount of discussion in evidence on several firearms forums that I cannot find one example of someone doing actual testing and finding one thing against the X-die relative to its intended purpose.
Sounds like a good investment too me…I hate trimming brass!
To the orig poster - dont forget the need to remove the primer crimp - why I went $$ route with a 1050 and deswagger built in.
I cant tell you how much .223/5.56 I have trimmed - done a ton and this is with a Dillon 550 setup with a decapper and 1200b trimmer/sizing die.
I HATE TRIMMING BRASS!!!
That said - I have two piles of brass - piles of virgin(really range pickup or other factory brass I never reloaded /fired) and piles of brass that I had originally reloaded(stored for the X-Die)
My plan is two sets of reloads - brass first timers and x-dire setups. I have not made it to the latter but just a few thousand of the former to go!
Also - I am a TAC Ramshot guy these days. Sticking with 55gr/62gr for now. Will make next 69gr/75gr bullet venture shortly.
Hello, Chris. in answer to your original question. I use IMR 4198 @ 19.0 grains. shooting from a 16 in. m-4 type barrel. I get about 368 rounds from a pound of powder. And they crono. at or about 2887 fps. with a 55 gr. fmj and its not to hard on the brass ether. I have been reloading for about 40 years and have tried about every piece of equipment out there any have found that there are NO short cuts to good safe reloading practices. Lee dies are probably the the toughest dies out there. And with that said, yes there are more finer tuning and fancier die sets I have no doubt but, for everyday reloading of rounds that you are just out to burn up at the range you won’t find a better and simpler die set. I get about 30.000 rounds out of the LEE die and I’M on my fifth set of 223 LEE dies. They don’t last forever! The hand primer from LEE for the money is a good choice also. It will prime with a good feel to the touch and you’ll know when you get a problem by the feel of the paddle. Just a tip that will save you a lot of guessing as to your head spacing on your hand loads. Size and complete a full round then pull your upper off your rifle and remove the charging handle. Drop the round in to the chamber and replace the bolt carrier group and close the BCG by hand to the locked position and pull the carrier out again with your little finger, Using the hole in the back of the BCG.It should unlock and come out with only a slight amount of resistance. If you have to force it out then readjust your sizing die until you can remove the BCG on a locked round with only a little pressure. Good luck and enjoy your reloading. 
Patriot
Wow, that sounds terrific!
How does the Dillon 1050 mounted pocket swager work? Is it a punch type or cutter type? Do you need to adjust it for depth or is it such that no adjustment is needed?
I’ve already done thousands with the Dillon Super Swager 600 (manual bench mounted) and hope not to have to swage that much again. But just in case I need it I would love to find a good press mounted tool. Can it work with any other presses or only mounts to the dillon?
It is built into the press and more or less works like the Super Swager 600. It is the second station and has a punch in the bottom and a die with rod on the top.