New guy here. Looking for advice.

AR/M4 AR General Discussion
1

First of all I want to say hello to everyone here! I came over from “across the street”, and I like it better here. There seems to be far less BS here than at that other AR forum. Keep up the good work!

OK, now down to business. A little background information is in order. I have been shooting for over 20 years, mostly rifles and pistols. I was in the Army for a short time in the early '90’s(discharged due to injuries), and I have owned two AR style rifles before, so I am not completely unfamiliar with the system. The two I owned were sold several years ago because of financial difficulties.

Now I want another one, but here’s the problem, I am having a hard time justifying it to myself(and my wife). I am not in the military, I’m not a cop, and I live in a rural area with very little crime. I just don’t really see a need for me to own an AR, especially for the amount of money a good one costs, not to mention all the accessories and ammo to go along with it. I still want one, but the only reasons I can come up with for buying one is because they are fun to shoot and they might be banned. Is that silly or what?!

It may sound stupid to some of you, but buying a quality firearm like an AR is a big expenditure for me, so I don’t go into it lightly. It can take months, or even years of saving and researching before I buy a new firearm.
So, can you all give me some advice, suggestions, and help me out here?

Thank you very much!

2

Welcome to the forum! Here is some food for thought when deciding on an AR:

  1. How will you use the weapon? Varmint? Bench/Target? Defense? 3 gun?
  2. What distances do you normally shoot at?
  3. What is your budget?

Answer these 3 questions and that will help to more clearly identify what you need.

Right now, AR’s are still cheap. Wait till 2009 and you might not like what you find. :wink:

C4

3

  1. I’m not sure how I’d use it. I guess self defense and plinking. I’d like to take a carbine class or two someday since those look like fun, and I like learning new skills.

  2. Most of my rifle shooting is within 300 yards, like 98% in fact. Occasionally I will shoot out to longer distances, but not often.

  3. I’d be willing to spend up to $1500 on the rifle, not including accessories, mags, and ammo. I’ve been looking at Noveske, specifically the N4 Light Basic or Recce Basic. I figure if I get an AR, it will likely be the only one I buy, so I might as well get one of the best, right?

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i think its a great investment.

especially if you buy quality and/or theres a future ban.

an investment thats alot of fun…and an excellent tool if need be.

what else can you ask for?

5

Have thought of building your own? Seems that you have the expericence to put together what you want. Becuase their fun to shoot is a justification as same as just becuase. Suggest you buy a good qualitily lower first and then add as finances become available. You can never go wrong with a good carbine for shots out to 300-400m. That’s why the Army is going heavy to the M4.

CD

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I have thought about building up the lower myself since that requires no special tools, and then buying the complete upper of my choice, again probably a Noveske N4 Light Basic or Recce Basic.

I like the basic versions because I tend to be a tactical minimalist. I’m not really convinced I need a railed handguard. I mean, the only thing I can think of that I might mount on there is a light, and I don’t really need a quad rail handguard for mounting just a light. I need to think about it more though. I may change my mind in the future.

I definitely want an optical sight of some kind, but I’m not sure which. I’ve narrowed it down to either an Aimpoint or an ACOG. I’ve used Aimpoints before, and I like them, but I checked out an ACOG TA31F on a rifle at a gun shop and I really liked it. Like I said in my first post, I live in a rural area where longer shots are a possibility, so I’m thinking the ACOG may be better suited for my purposes. I’m still not sure though. What do you all think?

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i think you’re on the right track. Noveske, Aimpoint, Trijicon ACOG…you can’t go wrong with any of that kit.

some of the questions you have at this point are all a matter of personal taste and opinion, so try to get whatever fits your paticular needs, preference and budget. you can add rails later if you find that you want them. just be aware that most rails require removing the barrel nut…some (like the Daniels Defense Omega) go on very easy with no disassembly of the upper whatsoever.

my only words of advice would be that if you’re buying a stripped lower, you might want to consider buying a spare. they are one of the cheapest AR components to buy and the only component that is regulated. the prices wont ever get any lower than they are currently. if you have a friendly FFL he might only charge you transfer fees once.

…then again, two lowers are harder to explain to the wife than one…and if you have a spare lower, it will be crying out “build me! build me!” on late nights.

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+1

Definately less drama on this side of the street…

9

A man without an AR is like a man with a paper ass.

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Uhhh…I don’t really know what that means, sorry, I must not be bright enough to get it.

As far as the AR goes, I’m working on it. I’m having trouble deciding between the N4 Light Basic and the N4 Light Recce Basic. I like the way the carbine looks a little better than the midlength Recce. What about balance? I know that standard carbines usually feel like they balance pretty good to me, but I’ve never even seen a midlength, much less held one. So I have no idea how well they balance. Those of you that have both can hopefully enlighten me.
Thanks again.

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There is much to learn, Grasshopper.

12

I could see some very good reasons to own an AR for your location (the type of place I am hoping to retire to :wink: ).

1- Varmint/Pest control. From crow to coyote, the AR with the right ammo will pin them to the ground.
2- Truck (or trunk) Gun. It’s with you wherever you go, handy for thoe unexpected country type things such as vehicle/deer interaction at high speed.
3- Plinking. While .223/5.56 ammo is certainly not dropping in price, there are few calibers with such a wide application band that also has cheap-ish practice/plinking ammo.
4- Unexpected Trouble. While rare in your environment, should there be a problem you will have time delay in emergency response and may be able to generate distance from the threat which you can use to your advantege with an AR.
5- Gun Grabbers. Self explainatory.

I have a great deal of respect for a properly executed GP carbine. I would go for the Noveske N4 Recce (reasons well stated by rob_s HERE) with a simple, rugged light and mount. The TA31F is a decent, tough piece of glass, but for the price and your application I would probably go with one of the variable 1-3X type optics.

Good luck and welcome in.

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You make some very good points, thank you.

For the optics, I am wondering if you can be more specific about which of the low powered variables you’d suggest. What is wrong with the ACOG that you don’t recommend it for my uses. What about Aimpoints, would one of those be OK?
I may be an experienced shooter, but I know very little about optics since I have been primarily an irons only shooter until fairly recently. Thanks again.

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I am basing my recommendations off of a general assumption that this is a daytime general-purpose gun. I assume that value is a key decision point.

I am going to be basing the price quotes off of SWFA, you may be able to find slightly better pricing elsewhere, I am just using it as a reference. I am going to be pretty light on descriptions, as much more information and reviews can be found in the optics threads.

ACOG- I would choose the TA33-8 over the TA31. I have used the 31 extensively, and am not a big fan. The short eye-relief is a PITA, and makes a BUIS difficult to fit. The TA33-8 has much more generous eye-relief, but you are going down to a 3x. It costs around $840 (vs about $1200 for TA31s), with a usable mount (the LaRue can be had for about $100, I don’t know about the ADM).

Variable- The low power variables can be a great value, if you switch between mid-range and close range frequently, and are more traditional scopes. The biggest issue is that they need a purpose-built mount, which run from about $180 to $220. The top ones are covered pretty well in this thread.
Weaver V3 1-3 ($150). OutlawDon gave his thoughts of it here. Do not just skip to the end of the paragraph looking for the summary. Don has some aversion to paragraph form, so be aware that at the end he is talking about a different optic. (Total price ~$370)
Millett DMS 1-4 ($200). There are numerous threads about it. It is a good value, as it has an illuminated reticle. Be warned- it is not a little scope. (Total ~$520)
Leupold 1.5-5 Mk4 (No illum, 1" tube)($600). A step up in quality and durability, some loss on the close-range, but higher magnification. (Total ~$800)
Leupold 1.5-5 Mk4 (30 mm, illum ret)($880). Basically same as above with illuminated reticle. (Total ~$1100)
Trijicon 1.25-4 ($600). Awesome value. Well covered in link above. (Total ~$800)
These suggestions are based on the assumption that you don’t want to spend a bunch of cash. If you have it available, I would recommend high-quality glass over the low priced glass, of course, as in the above thread.

The Aimpoint is great, and I love it, but you might not, as our applications are different.
The Comp C3 is the best deal for non-military use. It is under $400, but you will need a mount (it comes with a low mount). I have and use the LaRue, and the ADM is receiving praise as well. The package will be under $450 for everything.

I just did a quick list for you there, for in-depth discussion of any of that, just drop into the optics forum and fire away.