If you go to YouTube and find their video’s, in the third one they have two guys hold either end of it holding it horizontal to the ground and a third guy uses it as a step to get into a pickup truck. It held and fired immediately after.
No one is saying it can’t be made of polymer. They are saying you can’t take a part designed around one material and switch it with another. You would have to design said part with polymer or any other material at that from the beginning. Meaning it would be different specs, reinforced in different areas etc. Point is the lower being made with just another material and not designing and testing where it might fail with that material is the wrong answer. You can’t say ohh this weapon uses this material and it works just fine, that is because they DESIGNED IT to be made with that material so it would work.
Except that really doesn’t hold true. You can always replace one material with another if it’s equally as strong/tough/durable/equal in value. You could take an AR lower and build it out of steel or titanium couldn’t you? That’s replacing one material for another isnt’ it? It would work wouldn’t it?
You’re just assuming that because something is plastic that it can’t be strong, but that’s just not true anymore.
I agree that one component can’t always be swapped out for a different material without re-engineering and still be sufficiently strong. However, unless you use the rifle as a club it would be hard to stress the lower enough to cause any issue as indicated in the New Frontier testing videos.
PMAG’s seem to work well. The original AR15 mags were all aluminum?
Build it out of steel and see how heavy it is. It will be stronger than aluminum but heavier because it is a stronger metal. If they designed it around using steel it wouldn’t be as heavy as just changing the material because they designed it using steel so they could cut down on areas that don’t need as much steel. In the end it would probably look different and be just as strong and slightly heavier but if you just changed the material it would be a lot heavier and unnecessarly bulky.
Case and point proven with the other poster saying pmags. Pmags are thicker than than the aluminum mags and reinforced in other areas. They didn’t just replace material.
Endur, you stated that you can’t take something designed for one material and make it out of another. I gave an example of using steel. Sure it would be heavier but it made your “fact” just not true.
Why can’t it be possible that an AR lower built out of polymer has as much strength as an aluminum lower? Aluminum isn’t known as the strongest material in the world, it’s pretty light duty as is. Keep in mind that while the lower is the “firearm” part of an AR that doesn’t mean that it takes the most abuse. In fact, lowers take very little abuse.
And don’t discount the strength of polymers and synthetics. I trust my life every day I go to work on a synthetic material ballistic vest. It’s not steel but it still stops bullets doesn’t it? Synthetics and polymers aren’t just the plastic in your kids toys anymore.
Polymer can be a stronger material then aluminum or steel in certain cases http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=2307&page=109
The question is not “is polymer a good material for a firearm?” the question is " is polymer durable enough for an AR15 lower?" Maybe, maybe not. Just because others have failed at polymer lower receivers certainly doesn’t mean it’s a bad idea. I think it is possible to make a good polymer lower, it just needs time and R&D. Polymer certainly does have advantages to aluminum in many cases. It will not corrode/rust,it’s cheaper to fabricate,strength, and has self lubricating properties.
Obviously you are not getting the point. No one is arguing the strength of polymer. The point is you can’t just make something that was designed with one specific material in mind and make it with another. You have to redesign it with the material you want to make out of from the get go. Again I reference pmags, glocks and now the scar. All designed before hand with polymer in mind. Not something remade with another material.
These guys are local to me, and they do have a nice store and are nice folks. I haven’t tried their polymer lower, but do have a few of their roll-marked aluminum ones. I am still not sold on the polymer parts; and I am not sure that the weight savings are really worth it, might get one down the road but I am not in the market for a range toy/plinker.
Who’s to say they didn’t slightly redesign the AR lower to accommodate polymer? I don’t know the specifics, but I imagine the geometry of the receiver is a bit different.
So you agree that polymer is strong, and perhaps even as strong or stronger than aluminum but you’re not willing to admit that it’s possible to build an AR lower out of polymer that is as 100% reliable and strong as an aluminum one?
These are obviously working and surviving. Doing an internet search I found only 2 images of broken Plum Crazy lowers, one was likely due to operator error and the other may be a legitimate breakage. This is a different company than Plum Crazy and maybe better.
I see no reason to not take a chance on something like this. They are inexpensive and could one day be a game changer with AR’s. Just because someone calls it polymer doesn’t mean it is weak. I think there’s a great chance that one day there are very strong AR lowers made of polymer that are more durable than aluminum, and maybe that day is already here.
Endur, I don’t think anything will sway you, but to the OP and others keep your mind open that science is amazing and polymers may take over the world someday.
Man you still are not reading properly. Knowhere did I say they can’t make an ar lower out of polymer that is reliable… if it was designed from the ground up with polymer as the material and not just replaced with polymer. Key words there replaced with polymer and not designed with it in mind.
Man I can understand if someone doesn’t understand when words are exchanged but not when it is clearly in text right in front of you. RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU. How can you read the words and think they read otherwise. It’s like trying to reason with women (most)… selective hearing, in this case selective reading.
To the poster who asked how do I know if they didn’t design it with polymer in mind. I don’t but from the pics I have seen it doesn’t look so.
I can say “You CAN’T put chunky peanut butter on a peanut butter and jelly sandwich” but that doesn’t make it true does it?
There’s no disagreement that a polymer AR lower can be built, and that it can be sturdy. Your disagreement is that you can’t use the same dimensions for an aluminum lower vs a polymer lower. But it is possible if you have a polymer that is equal to aluminum in it’s properties. And who’s to say that isn’t possible and isn’t the case with these new lowers without seeing them and testing them?
I had one of those… fell hard on it a couple times. (ice)
good tough lowers. The standard AR15 lower with screw in stock extension just isn’t suitable for making out of plastic. that area has a big moment arm on it and is pretty thin. Works fine when made of forged aluminum, not so much with plastic. The cav arms with the integral stock dispenses with this issue.
I actually came across this lower while on facebook. I was thinking about building a truck gun with it or maybe a gun for the GF . I asked them a few questions and im waiting to hear back now . Otherwise i dont see a problem using one for a loaner/range gun . The lower doesnt really go through much stress anyways .As i recall the PCF lowers had problems with wear around the buffer tube area (getting chewed up and what not) if these are made of a different polymer maybe they solved that problem ?
I didn’t see where they designated what they mean by “stronger” - hardness? Modulus of elasticity?
Also, from their site, their “lifetime warranty” contains the dreaded words “Lifetime warranty against any manufacturer defects when used as directed”. I have to wonder what company policy determines what a “manufaacturers defect” is and what “used as directed” involves, other than just shooting.
Given the fact that I can get a $50 stripped lower, and a decent LPK with a 4-pos stock for another $100, for MY money, I will stick with aluminum. YMMV.
I was going to buy one to make a .22 out of for my grandson. They are sold out as of today. That said there are going to be hundreds of happy customers or hundreds of dissapointed ones. I am still going to get one on backorder. I hope it’s not a mistake. lol =/
I ordered one a few weeks ago and it arrived today. From the first impression it looks great but I will not get to shoot it for a few weeks because I am waiting for the DD m-l upper to arrive. I am looking to achieve a 5.75 lb rifle with higher end performance and am confident in the new poly lowers capabilities, I plan to put this through the wringer. This will be a scout type rifle and will try several caliber uppers with it as well as stocks, later I will try to get my aar up. Savage :big_boss:
I pick mine up Friday, I still plan to buy a alum lower and parts kit down the road and replace the lw15 lower. Then turn this in to a gun for the wife.
