I’ve always looked down on airsofters, I guess because a majority of the ones I’ve run into (in the US, anyways) are immature kids and/or young adults who, for whatever reason, don’t have real firearms so they play poser with fake ones. Lately, however, that view has changed.
I’ve seen a few sim groups who have actual skirmishes, like 50 on 50 battles with objectives, night raids, etc. A lot of prior-service and LE’s participate as well. The professional organization of it combined with the competition aspect has started to intrigue me.
Does anyone here do it? Any suggestions on groups, sites, etc. for gun guys who want to transition into the sport?
I’ve been thinking about this recently as well, seems like it could be interesting as a FoF type of training since sims are hard/impossible to get and there’s no paintball marker that feels like a real gun to my knowlege…
That’s precisely why I’m considering it. There’s a lot of airsoft clones that have similar-enough ergonomics, weight, manual of arms, and magazine capacity compared to the actual firearms. Coupled with FoF organized competition, I’d probably do this as often as I went to the range. I’d go the range just enough to stay accurate with my weapon systems, then actually get to practice drills and stuff under fire at these events.
Not to mention, the cost savings would be tremendous to going to the range all of the time.
KWA makes a very good airsoft pistol line designed for LE and civilian FoF training. The problem with running green gas, and propane is that they are temperature and environment sensitive at times. Propane also lacks the lubricating that gas blow back pistols need.
However, some of the games I have done with squared away individuals, and armature weekend gunfighters can be sobering of how your combat skills actually are. Being owned by a 6th grader beats the ego up because you made a mistake. Take it for what it is worth.
For those looking to do FoF training and not wanting to spend gagzooks amount on simunition guns and rounds, airsoft is the way to go, but like even real firearms, you have to know what is good, and what is shit.
BTW: a new thing I have been noticing coming up is steel challenge with airsoft at the house for training.
Pros with running airsoft:
[ul]
[li]A good chance your weapon has an airsoft variant.
[/li][li]Not as clunky as paintball.
[/li][li]You don’t have to wear a very cumbersome paintball mask, but good safety glasses or goggles are a must.
[/li][li]They still have good instant feedback when you hit someone, or they hit you. I.E. they still hurt.
[/li][/ul]
Cons:
[ol]
[li]Accuracy does suffer at long ranges.
[/li][li]You have to spend good money to get one to shoot far and be accurate.
[/li][li]Some gas blow back weapons are not reliable.
[/li][li]Some AEG blow backs are also not reliable.
[/li][li]Even with metal frames a gears, other parts are cheap plastic.
[/li][li]If you think AR-15 mags can be unpredictable, try airsoft mags.
[/li][li]Some are BB brand sensitive.
[/li][/ol]
Ive used Airsoft in that course, in FoF, and in other applications and it can be done usefully. I am just cautious about how its used, and understanding the limits (no real recoil, super light triggers, seeing the rounds in air, and jumbo mags can be bad juju for a spray and pray mentality)
Last time I was doing opfor one of the other opfor was a big air-soft guy. The games he goes to have uniform requirements, command structure etc. I was asking him how it compared to simunitions for real training. Here are the bullet points I remember. Feel free to point out where it may or may not be wrong this is his take on it.
Cons:
Most mags they use hold 100-1000 rounds. Which leads to fewer reloads.
Bullet drop is pretty serious at range compared to live rounds/sims.
Some airsofters game the system and with no paint marking it is hard to disprove.
Zero recoil to over come
Pros
You need less protective gear so you get better checkwelds and can work in hotter weather.
Cheaper (if you are buying the sim rounds)
Somewhat safer than sim rounds
I was one of those guys just a few years ago as a high schooler in California. Under 18, in that state, and not having parents that were open to guns made it hard to fire any so I started playing paintball. I wasn’t some douche that wore combat patches or anything but it was a lot of fun and was some solid force on force. It was a lot more reliable than my experience with sim rounds too.
Paintball is expensive as hell and I stopped once I actually started shooting but airsoft has been tempting me to try a lot lately. Way more realistic than paintball and it would give you a chance to work on things other than tactics like reloads and all of that good stuff. There’s a place in VA Beach area that has a solid-looking MOUT complex with a 3 (I think) story building that is setup for rappelling off of. And if you’re over 18, all they require is eye-pro, not the huge mask.
Its way cheaper than paintball too. Probably the most-cost effective FoF there is… Travis Haley had a vid on YouTube about it for all those who love him.
yeah I know a guy that goes to like huge, 48 hour airsoft “missions”… granted they are all pretty much 100% mall ninja with no actual battle drills or strategies… it does seem like it could be a useful tool if you have a group motivated people that wanted to actually train…
I would much prefer simunitions… but they aren’t commercially available to civies…
how do you even play airsoft… like… to me it seems like it would end up like it did when you were a kid… " I GOT YOU"… “NOT UHH”… “YES HUH I GOT YOU YOU’RE DEAD”… “NO YOU DIDN’T, I GOT YOU BEFORE YOU GOT ME”… how is there any actual proof…
and once you are hit… in the middle of one of these huge battles… do you just keep going… or are you actually out?
I played paintball in San Diego and there were always several current and former Marines. Plus, for anyone who hasn’t used them, simunitions suck. I can’t tell you how many weapons we had go down in the middle of MOUT ops and just got lit up.
I will have to agree with this. In the couple FoF simunitions training classes that I’ve taken, the guns were constantly going down and very unreliable, even with cleaning/maintenance. I guess you could say it was good practice clearing malfunctions.
I’ve never done a big airsoft game, but I played paintball for 12 years pretty regularly and we did a lot of outdoors stuff and some pretty big 24 hour “scenario games” that sound like these airsoft games. May not be perfect training, but still some good lessons can be learned from it
This is all goin to depend on who you’re training with and how serious you’re going to take things.
I’ve done this in a training environment before (sorta like Southnarc’s AMIS class) and pretty much all the guys would admit to being hit…the problem comes from wearing bulky clothes and not feeling hits. And yes, the ego takes a hit when you get tagged by someone that you know is less experienced than you :cray:
If I were setting up the training, I would mandate short sleeves and/or a single thin shirt only. May not be fun to get hit, but get a couple of welts, bruises or draw blood and I guarantee you’ll learn from your mistakes quicker
Using simunition brand or utm? Utm sucks goat balls for sure.
Using 5.56 simunition stuff if you clean it good, use the right lube (and lack of at times) and good mags I’ve got through 800 rounds a night with no jams.
Our protocol is:
brake cleaner down the barrel
brake cleaner lightly to wipe down the bolt/chamber. Or acetone for this.
A light coat of gun oil on the bolt
Patch the barrel til it is dry
Shot folks in the thigh where it hurts the most :laugh:
As to good airsoft folks if you are anywhere near oklahoma or arkansas the guy I was talking to runs battle sims with airsoft in that area. They are mostly current/past mil or leo and the people they invite to join.
They plan an honor system for hits. You get three “lives” signified by a rope with three knots. Each time you get a kill shot you have to call a medic who comes and undoes a knot and you are good to go again. When you are out of knots you go back to hq.
I’ll have to check to find out the name, but there is a travelling group run by a retired CSM and a couple officers that go around the country, mostly military bases, and do large scale FoF stuff.
Civilians welcome, X dollar entry fee, usually a Friday night through Sunday afternoon thing with a few different scenarios over the days and at least one full on 50/50 kill 'em all event.
Last time they were at Ft. Drum NY last summer they had over 200 entrants IIRC.
Not just limited to the guns either. These guys had grenades and boobytraps, etc. They even spook the brush with red magic markers ‘cutting throats’ on LRRP missions LOL
I have an old HK style MP5 made by Classic Army. Fun as shit to shoot. Great for shooting neighborhood cats using my backyard as their litterbox. You have never seen a cat move so quickly over a 6 ft fence as one that has just been sprayed with 6mm BBs. Solved a lot of problems in that area. Never actually played AS though, like paintball, it seem like it would be more for fun than anything serious.
I have an M16A2 AEG laying around my basement from way back in high school before I could buy real guns. I only ever actually played airsoft once, but I did play paintball competitively for several years before that.
At the height of my paintball time, I participated in the 24 hour scenario games in northern Florida. These games had upwards of 500 players on a square mile (if not bigger) section of forrest with completely built bunkers and barricades. Those who had .mil time naturally rose to the top as they were better at organizing teams of people into workable units. That was over ten years ago for me, though. I haven’t done anything like that in a long time.
I’ve always been intrigued by actual FoF training opportunities presented by things like airsoft. It is possible to practice basic tactics and skills with a real threat of being hit yourself. The fact that the weapons can emulate the ones in my safe is a bonus.
Couldn’t tell you. It was infantry OSUT so that should say something. POS everything…
That’s awesome. I played a 24 hour scenario and several big games, all of which were awesomely fun and had lots of learning experiences for anyone wanting to.
