Need optics advice please !

Tactical Gear Optics & Mounts
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Hello all, I am new to ARs and new to the forum. My carbine should arrive shortly and I am looking into optics and trying to educate myself as to what the best choice may be. Though I have purchased my carbine principally for home defense, I would still like the capacity to deliver some longer range accurate shots, approx 200-300 yds. I have heard many people endorse aimpoint scopes over Eotech for multiple reasons (battery life,durability,etc.) and I am sure there are many threads on this topic already but am also wondering if a scope such as a Horus Talon may be what I am looking for. I like the reticle of the Eotech best with the dot within the circle rather than a just dot itself as in aimpoint and it appears a smaller dot would be advisable if longer range shots were also being considered. I am also concerned about weight so don’t know if a magnifier is also worthwhile considering in the package. Bottom line, can you suggest something that would meet both needs well in a lighter wt package if such an possibility exists.

                 many thanks,  Dr. Mike
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have you checked out the Optics Subforum yet? http://m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=13

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thanks, will check out subforum now.

                 Dr. Mike
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For long battery life you cannot beat the Aimpoint M4 or M4s, which is very attractive on a Larue mount. You can leave it turned on for 10 yrs. before the battery goes dead.

http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=226

For rapid target acquisition, an Eotech is quickest IMO, but has shorter batty live than an Aimpoint.

http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=379

For 25 to 300 yards, an ACOG has the advantage and it is extremely durable.

http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=197

However, I would not want an ACOG on a home defense gun due to limited field of view. So may I suggest that you acquire two AR-15 rifles, one with an Aimpoint or Eotech for close in stuff and another with an ACOG for mid-range stuff?

As an aside, with a little practice to get used to your optic, there is no reason you cannot hit a standing rabbit at 200 yards almost every time with an Eotech or Aimpoint without magnifier. The magnifiers are bulky and heavy and not my first choice. At 300 yards you can shoot a deer with an Eotech or Aimpoint from a rest, no problem. Of course I would prefer an ACOG for mid range use, but the Eotech or Aimpoint can get it done too.

Eotech chart:

You can also get this reticle in the Eotech, but I prefer the simple one:

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I don’t understand the charts, a deer at 100 yards is bracketed in at 12" yet a standing man at 100 yards is bracketed head to toe?

Splain please.

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Dr. Mike- one optic comes to mind… the trijicon accupoint 1-4x. As fast as a rds on 1x and power to to 4x. GREAT reticle options and NO batteries (tritium/fiber optics). Check 'em out! Another option is a 2 moa aimpoint with a magnifier behind it. I won’t buy anything, as far as optics go, that have batteries in them other then aimpoint… until someone proves themselves.

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I love my Eotech but switched to an ACOG. I personaly like the ACOG with piggy backed MRD ( but some dont, depends on user preferance ). For fast target acquisition I prefer the Eotech reticle over a single dot. An Aimpoint or Eotech will serve you well if you want a 1x optic.

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Yes. The deer’s chest is 17 inches top to bottom, while the man is 6 feet top to bottom. So the man fills the reticle at a longer distance than the deer’s chest due to the greater size of the man. Remember this is a quick and dirty range estimator, not a Leica laser rangefinder.

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TWR, the one showing the reticle providing the range estimations for a human at the specified distances is correct, in that it shows how to range a target so that the shooter can employ a hold.

The one with the deer…that reticle would have to be a different size, for the reasons you’ve identified. Since that’s clearly not the case – 65MOA circle, and there’s no way in hell that that deer’s torso is 65" tall – I wouldn’t presume to speculate as to what that’s supposed to represent. I’ve never dealt with those things in regard to anything other than targets that shoot back.

Dr. Mike, to answer your earlier specific question, the dot in the EOTech reticle is 1MOA.

With an EOTech or Aimpoint, an informed decision as to what zero you put on it, and enough practice to know what your holds are at different distances, there’s no reason you can’t take and make shots out to 300m. I’ve gotten to the point that I’m making good hits out to 300m+ with a 2MOA dot in a Comp ML3, so if my happy ass can do it… Question becomes whether or not you want to be able to closely observe and identify targets at those distances.

So, the further question may be, magnification y/n? If so, a 3x magnifier, a fixed-mag optic, or a variable-mag optic. You’ve identified a variable-mag one, and they offer pretty good all-around versatility, with a fixed-mag/offset mini-RDS combo nipping at it’s heels. I don’t know enough about either (YET!) to say much. However, if you want to pursue more info regarding variable-mag…: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=104

Alaskapopo and some others have played around with fixed-mag/mini-RDS setups, and a search by username can net you some material in that regard.

The earlier comments about the ACOG and HD are glitttering generalities. There are many members of this board (plus a few hundred thousand mil/LE in general) that have used TA33, TA11,TA01/ TA31, and other variants with great success from 0-600m in combat and in competition. The trend is that they’re a little slower in terms of target acquisition at close ranges, but training mitigates that. It’s a universal cure for all sorts of things.

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JSantoro, Thank you.

500grains, could it be the range on your deer chart is backwards?

I have an eotech now because it was cheap (ona M&P 15-22), I much prefer the simple dot of the Aimpoint for RDS. This is my 4th eotech and I’ve had 3 Aimpoints, looking for a micro dot now. That said I prefer a scope over either one of them when ranges get past 100 yards. A Leupold 1.5-5 with the illuminated circle dot is worth a look.

In the past I had an Aimpoint ML3 w/2MOA dot in a LaRue mount and a Leupold 1.5-5 scope in a LaRue mount. I swapped these out as needed instead of compromising with either one.

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I think that high quality low powered variables are superior choices for general purpose rifles.

Dedicated CQB weapons are best served with 1X optics, preferably with long battery life. While 1X optics can be used successfully out to 300 meters, they shine at closer ranges.

Fixed 3X to 4X optics are good to go from about 25 out to the limits of their reticles. The ACOG line dominates this sector of the market, so most of my comments about the low-powered fixed optics are about them. They can be used at much closer ranges but reticle brightness when in transient lighting is sub-optimal. In even lighting they are easily used at CQB distances, which can be a bit deceptive in their real-world employment. I am not a big fan of them, but some reticles lend themselves very well to general purpose use.

Take a look at the stickies in the optics forum, there is a lot of good info there with regard to the low-powered variable options as they currently exist.

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Pretty sure that it displays holds, presuming a particular zero. A direct link to the specified page would probably answer this for certain. I couldn’t find it on the EOTech site, which means exactly what that states: I couldn’t find it, not that it doesn’t exist.

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“Pretty sure that it displays holds, presuming a particular zero”.

That makes sense.

I apologise for taking this somewhat off topic and will go back to reading more and posting less.

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Heh, don’t chase the mice running around in his head. Your math is right, and your question was valid.

1MOA = 1.047"@ 100yd, therefore…

65MOA = 71.253" @ 100yd, so it follows that…

17" (symbol for DOES NOT EQUAL) 71"

Don’t apologize. The bloody math is part of what getting boned up on optics is all about.

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I can buy the soldier pic as a cheap range estimate and the deer pic as where to hold (sort of) but why they made the deer smaller up close looks odd.

Anyway, one more reason I like simple dots and reticles, maybe I have too many things running through my feable mind when it’s time to pull the trigger.