I’m fixing to have my year end bonus kick in for work, and it’s time for me to choose an optic for my Recce. Having had trigger time behind several different types of precision scopes on bolt guns, I have a hard time compromising medium to long range shooting for CQ’s style situations and mid range work. Realistically I realize that with a 16" carbine I need to train more close in and then work my way out.
I would prefer a variable power scope, with a 1 or 1.5 low end and around a 4 to 5x top end. The scope that currently catches my eye is the Leupold Mk4 1.5-5 w/ CMR2 reticle. The downside I see with this scope is that the battery life for the illumination is very poor, which would leave me to hoarding batteries.
The M150 and M4CP versions of the ACOG are also appealing. Illumination is relatively eternal, and while I’m very right eye dominant, I am able to close a front lens cap and superimpose the chevron fairly well. I do not have much luck doing so while looking through the optic as my right eye is almost always drawn to the magniification. Closing the lens cap would allow me to do fairly well w/ using the BAC. The holdovers on the sight will still allow me to ring steel at 500-600 yards on my private range at home.
And then there are the aimpoints. Tough, very long battery life and just a good option. That being said, I wear glasses, have astigmatism and I don’t see very well past 100 yards. I am able to hit a 20" steel plate at 300 yards with my Magpul Gen 2 MBUS currently, but it’s a challenge to keep an 80% hit ratio.
So with the ACOG being the highest priced optic listed, we’ll set my budget at $1300.00. I already own an ADM Recon X 30mm QD Mount so a 30mm tube would be preferable.
I believe Grant has a post reviewing several varied optics.
the vortex razor 1-6 has nice glass and is pretty close to a true 1x for close work
Now if it were me I would likely go with an aimpoint 2moa t1, for any real carbine use. Don’t get me wrong the varied are nice, I just don’t see the much of an advantage over an aimpoint not in a “DMR” type role.
The reticle is nicely designed to be a big circle/crosshair at 1x and then grow into a standard mil hash crosshair as you increase magnification. It’s a few hundred below your budget, which leaves room for more ammo.
Second up would be the Bushnell Elite 1-6.5x24 with BTR-2 reticle. You can get it in FFP or SFP for slightly cheaper (my preference in this one would actually be SFP). Check with Scott and Libertyoptics.com, he has both listed on his site right now. If you call or email him directly, he might be able to work out a good deal for you. http://libertyoptics.com/contents/en-us/d69.html#p147#p474
Third up would be the Vortex Razor HD Gen II 1-6x24. It probably has the best features out of all of them, but I don’t like BDC reticles, especially MOA ones since everything else I own runs in MRADs. They’ve been hard to get a hold of, but they’re out there. Again, call or email for deals. http://libertyoptics.com/contents/en-us/d58.html
You could drop any of those magnifications down to 4x and save quite a bit, as 6x and 8x are the new “hotness” in the optics industry. ACOGs aren’t precision optics, but that might not be an issue for you since you didn’t specify precision as a requirement. In an era where really good rugged variable glass is available, ACOGs are losing their luster with me for unless you are just trying to build a KISS style rifle or trying to maximize weight savings. Most here would steer you against the ACOGs you listed, as they have very short eye relief. Better options would be TA-33 or TA-11 (though the latter is a big boy relative to the others).
The Vortex has new reticle options out other than the JM BDC. Check with SWFA, they have it listed on their site but I am not sure when they will be stocking them (maybe after SHOT?)
Looks like they have a mil/mil version coming, they’ll probably debut it at the SHOT. I think my search for the optic for my SCAR 17s is over. :dance3:
When I was looking for a variable scope for a similar application (mid-range variable optic) it really came down to just two optics for me. The first was the Schmidt and Bender Short Dot 1-4 and the second was the Nightforce NXS 1-4. I wanted a variable that was well proven and had been used combat.
The leupolds run w/o illumination IIRC, and its good clear glass with a reticle you can see, and illumination if you cant so battery shouldn’t be an issue. I prefer the Leatherwood CMR myself, or the VR-X from Leupold.
When I see “RECCE” I expect to see a 16" carbine equipped with some type of scope which allows for some magnification. A good 1-4x/6x/8x would be what I would be looking at for a dedicated RECCE as well as a general purpose gun. Many perform like an RDS at 1x and can be quickly dialed-up to high magnification to take an occasional long shot. The added benefit of a good LPVO is having an etched reticle which requires no powered illumination in order to be effective. I understand that a lot of people put a lot of faith in their battery powered optics, but Murphy always has a vote. I would either run offset irons or micro dot to supplement. With regard to optic choices, 2014 looks like it’s shaping up to be a good year for lower cost LPVO options being introduced in the 1-5x to 1-8x range, so maybe wait until after what’s presented at Shot before deciding which direction you want to go. Personally, I’m running a GRSC 1-6x24 CRS and it has been very reliable. It’s a great optic at a competitive price point and is often overlooked.
This is actually a 16" upper, but I photo-chopped it down to 14.5" just to see how it would look. You can hardly see them, but I’m running a set of KAC 45 degree offset BUIS:
How about a Nightforce 1-4x24 with one of the FC reticles or mil-dot reticles? You could also try a NF 2.5-10x24/32 and go with that.
I run a 2.5-10x24 on my MK12 and a 1-4x24 (Mildot) on my RECCE. Hopefully the deal I have working on another 2.5-10x24 will work out and the 1-4 will be replaced with a 2.5.
I have no issues running the 2.5 in close for “CQB” purposes. I usually run my 1-4 on about 1.5 power up to 2. I much prefer to have a bit more mag when running 0 to about 100 yards.
Battery life on the NF scopes should be around 700 hours with a CR2032 battery. I don’t remember which setting it has to be on for that but that came directly from NF. I just changed my battery out on my 1-4 for the first time in a year. Still had plenty of juice left in it but did for piece of mind. I’ve been using this scope every other weekend at level 5.
Nice…I mistaken that rifle org. for a 14.5" IIrc. I like that configuration a lot.
I’d have to agree with David on the Recce optic…2.5-10x is where it’s at in my book. If you ever want to really ring out your rifle, i.e. 700-800+ shooting…you’ll really appreciate the 10x on the top end. I think a real world use Recce should have both Primary/secondary optics, thereby negating any real usefulness for the low end on the primary optic. A T-1 in a 1oclock offset is about as fast as one needs.
Thinking about turning my KAC SR-15 mod 1 into a light Reece build. I’m torn between the Leupold Mark 6 1-6, Leupold Mark 8 1-8, and the NF NXS 2.5-10 x 34 compact. The Vortex 2.5-10 might be a budget option as well. Thoughts???
Also which of the reticle options would be best suited for this application?
I basically let the optic be dictated by what I want to do on the low end. My HCS Recce upper has the Mk6 just because I still want a 1x optic with a dot centric setup to use it as a simple carbine. The Centurion SPR upper gets a 2.5-8x Mk4 because I still want the lower 2.5x zoom end, and I don’t run that rifle enough to justify the cost of the NF NXS.
If you’re looking at light recce, 1-6x is the answer, if not a high end 1-4x. My Mod0 SR-15 ran an TR24RT for the longest time, and I love that setup - that optic now lives on my DD V5 (poor man’s SR-15), and my URX railed recce upper runs the Mk6.
The SWFA, Vortex, and Leupy 1-6x are all fairly heavy, the but the Mk6 is the least offensive of the group for weight. Locking turrets and a BDC that works for anybody who worked well using an ACOG, so I can’t really consider that optic outclassed by anything out there. Sure the Mk8 exists, and USO have stuff in that range; but those things are honestly quite heavy, and probably more at home on an SR-25 to justify the weight in exchange for wider capability spectrum.
5.56 in my opinion just doesn’t need that much zoom for a carbine setup - 4x zoom does okay at 550 yards to be honest, and 6x really takes anything other than a top end SS barrel running Mk262 well past the really effective ballistic range. The weight of the glass to make anything more work well just doesn’t make sense on a carbine that otherwise weighs under 7lb
TehLlama, I agree about the 556 not needing more than 1-6 and even a good 1-4 would suffice. Of the 1-4 optics I like the NF NXS the best for its quality and price, the S&B Shortdot is nice but just too much $$$. The Vortex stuff at all levels is good if not great but it’s too heavy for this application. I also agree that the MK8 is too much for the 556 unless it’s an LPR, it’s much more are home on an SR-25 or Scar 17s.
My goal is a Light Reece, your typical lightweight 16" carbine with a good trigger, long rail, and a powered optic. I think my host, the KAC SR-15 E3 fits all of those with it’s light weight, 13.5" rail, and 2-stage trigger. I honestly think the best optic for this setup is the Leupold MK 6 1-6. I plan to run some KAC 45 degree angle offset irons and an XT07 for my SF300U and be done with it. I’ll pick up one of the new Mod 2 11.5" SBR’s this spring and the Aimpoint Micro can find a new home there.
Thanks for all of the input/advice, I’m now looking forward to completing this build.
I think its really going to come down to use. While I certainly agree that you don’t NEED more than 6x on the top end for most practical distances with an AR, I having that little extra never hurts. I’ve become a fan of the 2.5-10x as well, especially for the style I’ve been shooting lately (which is not super-fast uber dynamic tactical).
There are a lot of good options out there, but I think you need to further define your need and use.
This is the Vortex 2.5-10x32 that replaced my TR24 mounted on my “recce”
