i kinda forgot to run a lubricated bore snake through my barrel b4 i shot 2 rounds. now im sure this isnt a huge issue, it fired 2 rounds right out of the box without lubrication in the barrel. is it possible that i affected anything like accuracy or the integrity of the barrel just by shooting those 2 rounds? no right?
NO. You may want to go through a break-in procedure but there are different schools of thought on the subject.
ok, whats the procedure u recommend? i thought breaking-in a firearm was as easy as just properly lubing and firing the gun
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Buy gun
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Clean barrel
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Shoot 20 rnds
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Clean barrel
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Shoot until accuracy suffers, or you feel guilty
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Repeat steps 4 and 5 until barrel is ruined
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Replace barrel
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Repeat steps 2 - 6
Why are you oiling the bore BEFORE you shoot?
That’s really risky.
With a Savage barrel I would shoot one, clean, for a few shots, then move to five and do it. They are often really, really rough and doing this lets you get to the point where the barrel is “stable” faster.
Use a GOOD copper solvent, one piece rod, bore guide and broze brush. If you are using a bore snake there is little point in bothering. Just don’t worry and shoot the thing.
You also need a powder/carbon solvent and a patch/jag end.
AJS, tell me how cleaning, then firing 1, then cleaning will season the bore any faster or better than just shooting 20rnds or more and THEN cleaning?
copper and carbon build up in layers. In rough barrels like Savages you are filling the machining flaws in and the projectile is riding on a later of copper. By removing the layer and letting the projectile “burnish”(for want of a better word) the bore we get to the point where the bore is smoother and more stable. It’s possible we would not get to the same end point without doing this. At the very least it will take a long time.
You can investigate what goes on it the throat too if you want. Why we do not want the machining pits and flaws full of crap before they can smooth over.
You can “feel” when a barrel comes on if using proper cleaning equipment. One of my Savages has a big loose spot towards the end of the barrel which WAS where it fouled. a big long set of copper streaks. It no longer does that and hasn’t been cleaned for a long time. No need. Accuracy is under .5MOA and stable.
We do need to be very clear of the difference between factory barrels and “custom” ones. This is where most go wrong. If you need to “run in” a decent barrel something is wrong with it. OTOH, I do follow a “run in” process with them JUST so I KNOW what is going on with the barrel. Is it what I paid for?
Of course, my “knowledge” only comes from real life examples, metallurgy publications, a series of real world tests that were published in a local publication many years ago and that sort of thing. not from the normal forum splatter based on one or two guys with really decent barrels.
Gale McMillan, the fellow who started McMillan stocks, etc wrote the following about barrel break in in 1999.
The break in fad was started by a fellow I helped get started in the barrel business . He started putting a set of break in instructions in ever barrel he shipped. One came into the shop to be installed and I read it and the next time I saw him I asked him What was with this break in crap?. His answer was Mac, My share of the market is about 700 barrels a year. I cater to the target crowd and they shoot a barrel about 3000 rounds before they change it. If each one uses up 100 rounds of each barrel breaking it in you can figure out how many more barrels I will get to make each year. If you will stop and think that the barrel doesn’t know whether you are cleaning it every shot or every 5 shots and if you are removing all foreign material that has been deposited in it since the last time you cleaned it what more can you do? When I ship a barrel I send a recommendation with it that you clean it ever chance you get with a brass brush pushed through it at least 12 times with a good solvent and followed by two and only 2 soft patches. This means if you are a bench rest shooter you clean ever 7 or 8 rounds . If you are a high power shooter you clean it when you come off the line after 20 rounds. If you follow the fad of cleaning every shot for X amount and every 2 shots for X amount and so on the only thing you are accomplishing is shortening the life of the barrel by the amount of rounds you shot during this process. I always say Monkey see Monkey do, now I will wait on the flames but before you write them, Please include what you think is happening inside your barrel during break in that is worth the expense and time you are spending during break in
The rest of the thread is here.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=12582
He also comments on the use of copper solvent.
I agree with Orkan here.
The bottom line is that the people that have to ask about “break in” don’t shoot enough to know for themselves.
They don’t know that every time you clean your barrel, it will hit in a different spot afterward for a few shots. Some will take 3 shots to come back “in” while others will take 30 shots.
They don’t understand that copper in your bore is REQUIRED for best accuracy. Hence why even the benchresters shoot “foulers” and “sighters” before they shoot for score.
If you doubt what I’m saying and want to argue the point, you had better produce some data to refute it. YOUR OWN DATA… not someone else’s data.
and here we go. What “type” of barrel was he talking about?
a finished, quality product not what is fitted to Savages.
If all you have to support what you are saying is something out of context which you don’t understand then you might consider either not commenting OR understanding what I posted 
Orkan, nothing you said has any bearing on what I posted.
If you do not understand what we are talking about, the difference between partially finished products and “custom” ones OR what “we” do with “running in” then take some time and learn. If you just want to go off on tangents I have little interest in replying.
What’s a lead lap and why is it done?
how does fouling build up?
Does a smooth surface hold fouling like a rough one does?
Does a smoothed bore tend to be more “stable”?
No real point in ranting and asking me to “prove” something until you understand what was just said.
Ok hot shot…
How many barrels have you gone through?
Show me your log book pages that illustrate cleaning cycles vs round count.
Show me where you are consistently getting cold bore MOA hits at range with a spotless bore, custom or otherwise.
While you may THINK you know what is happening at the microscopic level in the bore after every shot, the truth of the matter is that it doesn’t make a damn bit of difference. You either hit your target or you don’t. Neither YOU, nor anyone else is going to be able to convince me that this “shoot one clean one” regimen of barrel break in you or any of the other cleaning nazi’s subscribe to makes one damn bit of difference UNTIL THEY SHOW ME THE DATA PROVING IT.
I did the work for myself. I took two rem700 sps tacticals in 308. One of them I did the cleaning regimen you talk about. The other, I cleaned before firing, and then just shot with it. Both guns were 3/4 MOA out of the box.
The one I just shot until accuracy suffered, would open up to about 1.5MOA after 250-300rnds. Then I cleaned it and it went back down to 3/4moa. Around 800rnds or so, both of them would run 1/2 moa or a little better.
The other one I cleaned every time I took it out. I started noticing some things. First thing was every time I took it out, it had to be re-zeroed as it would take around 10 shots to foul in again. Second thing I noticed is that it would have flyers about 1 to 2 shots out of the first 20 or so after the 10 shot fouling. Otherwise, accuracy always stayed about 3/4 to 1 moa on this rifle. Yet that didn’t matter because I couldn’t just pick it up and make a hit. I had to screw with it every time. Gee so fun. Maybe for a safe queen that some idiot shots 5 times a year.
Neither rifle displayed any different accuracy with equal round counts. I wish to hell I was keeping log books at that time in my life, so I could prove it to know-it-all’s like yourself. Be that as it may, I did the work myself, and I KNOW not because I read it… but because I did it.
My krieger’s will sometimes go 500rnds before they need to be cleaned. Less in a 22-250 of course, but the point is that this cleaning regimen crap is exactly that… CRAP.
Your barrel will ether be good, or it will be bad. Either way, after X number of rounds down the barrel REGARDLESS OF YOUR CLEANING REGIMEN, it will be as broke in as it can be, and as accurate as it can be.
Everything out of your mouth is an absolute AJS. I wish I could shoot where you shoot, where these “absolute’s” of the shooting world seem to exist.
Nicely put Orkan.
I had the same experience with my SPS Tac. It takes at least 15 foulers before it starts to group, and starts opening up after around 200 rounds. Cleaning regimens, and barrel break in procedures are pure interweb crap.
When I started shooting, I bought into the “barrel break-in” concept. It sounds so appealing, it’s like magic: shoot one, clean one, click your heals together 3 times, turn around, and voila! You’ve got an accurate gun.
So much easier to spend hours and threads arguing about the best superstitious cleaning and break-in procedure, when the REAL work is to get your ass down on the firing line and do some shooting.
I tend not to post crap. Where I don’t know I ask. You will also notice I really don’t post all that often. This is why.
If you don’t understand the subject (which you don’t) then don’t comment on it.
In many cases where a “custom” barrel will not stop fouling the MFR will take it back and lap it. Why? What are they after?
(spend some time thinking about this)
We want a bore that is smooth and stable. Which keeps shooting the same sized groups for a long time. In many cases this happens faster if you follow a process at the start. Buy a decent barrel and THIS HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE!
Ranting about clean bore accuracy and POI change is irrelevant.
Out of interest, have you never seen a carbon ring raise pressure?
Never had strips of fouling out of a barrel?
Arguing that a smooth bore is not better for stable accuracy is idiotic.
Arguing that “burnishing” is not productive in helping this enviroment happen is silly.
Arguing that excessive copper does not get in the way of this process is crazy.
Those at the extreme ends of this discussion are just as bad as each other. Both are blinded by what they want to think without understand what is being said. I do what needs to be done. Each barrel is different and I can easily tell when they “come on”.
I see, if someone disagrees with you, they are too stupid to understand eh?
I’ve read ever post you’ve made here, and your posts REEK of someone that hasn’t gained the knowledge for themselves, but probably keeps the company of some people that might have. Keep regurgitating information long enough and I’m sure some people might buy that you have something to offer that can’t be gleaned elsewhere.
Break in is bullshit. End of story. I’ve not seen it help, nor hurt, in any instance through the last 20 years of my life. I do know one thing is for certain however, and that is by doing the bullshit break-in procedures, you shoot more meaningless foulers and thus shoot more rounds than is necessary. The only CERTAINTY in all of this is that barrel manufacturers like this “break in” crap very much. The more idiots they can get sold on “break in” the more barrels they can sell.
“Wont that make the bullets come out quicker?” Pusher from Sgt York.
If it was a high dollar match grade 1200 meter barrel it might possible effect it somewhere along the lines but it doesn’t hurt to shoot a savage.
Proper Barrel Break-in Procedure
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRRahHX9Zkg
This is how pissing matches get started.
AJS takes the bait…
And the pissing match is on!
What we need is an “Official “You Are A(n) (insert personal insult here)”” thread. When someone places a post with a snarky personal remark a moderator would cut the post from the original thread and paste it to the “Official “You Are A(n) (insert personal insult here)”” thread. There would be two advantages to this scheme. It would keep the threads from being clogged with personal remarks and it would allow us to amuse ourselves by reading the snarky stuff all in one place.
if you are ever in houston, im buying you a beer.
Tim, can there be a section for posts that have nothing to do with the topic as well?