I might be helping some friends with selecting a gun for home defense soon, but I am at a loss as to what I should recommend. I’d like to say a quality AR, but between costs and them being pretty new to guns, I’m not sure it would work out. Currently I’m thinking some sort of AK variant or sigh a mini-14, but I’m not terribly happy with those choices either. Can anyone help me find a suitable HD gun that’s not an AR or expensive?
How about just a nice shotgun, if they want it only for home defense you can’t go wrong with a shotgun for the price. I would still steer them towards a nice AR but if they don’t want to spend the money… then go with the shotty.
sticky with a shotty
Will it just be him, or does he have a wife/girlfriend and younger adults/teens to think about too?
A quality pistol caliber carbine like the Beretta Storm in 9mm or a USGI M1 Carbine wouldn’t be a bad choice.
Low recoil, easy to handle, not very complicated.
The Beretta Storm is also going to be economical to shoot and they can easily practice in an indoor range if that’s what they have access too.
To answer Templar’s question, yes the people involved are a guy and his wife. For that reason I wanted something very simple to operate and is nice and light. I have an M1 carbine and can get a hold of a storm, so I’ll have to let them try those out. I would really like to recommend a storm since I really like the controls, compactness, and it’s accessory friendly. My only hangup was it being a pistol caliber, but if that isn’t a major issue, I might have to point them in that direction.
Lot’s of dead people laying around the fields of Europe due to 9mm hardball in WWII, and subguns were the main arm of choice for decades in teams conducting CQB operations.
I would have zero reservations about recommending a Beretta Storm. That light recoil and muzzle blast will make it more comfortable for them to actually shoot.
Great. I’ll have to make sure they take a good look at the storm. I’m glad you brought up the fact the storm will be cheap to shoot since that should be a big plus for them. Too bad I hadn’t got on this sooner since cabelas was having a sale on storms till the end of march for $700. Does anyone know of any online dealers that have storms for a fair price?
dont forget to highly suggest buying flashlight to attach to it as well.
I plan on it.
You might want to reach out to NCPatrolAR, he’s got a Storm and has it set up for serious social work.
In terms of home defense weapons I always think of what a weapon might look like in court as a prosecutor holds it up for the jury to see. Fantasy, maybe, but IMHO a consideration none the less. You need to think about surviving both the immediate encounter and the aftermath.
Other than a pistol, my preferred choices are a wood and blue steel shotgun, a lever action 30-30, an M1 carbine or other “antique” rifle. Again IMHO a SKS, AK47 or even an AR (the good guys gun) may be controversial if used for home defense. Much depends on where you live.
I know many will not agree with my opinion.
I would even recommend a Ruger 10/22 loaded with CCI Velocitors if a person can’t/won’t practice with anything else.
My go to is a Glock 17 with a light/laser loaded with 124gr +P or a M1 carbine with a light loaded with Remington 110gr SP ammo. Depending on whether the threat is inside or outside.
I live in a rural area with no close neighbors and no town police to come to my aid.
oh keerist almighty… not this again. No one, NO ONE ever has been prosicuted because they used an “evil looking” firearm in a justified shooting, EVER! As long as you never cross the line of the law by becoming the agressor, you are fine. The instant you do, even with that 10/.22, you are toast.
I have zero experience with the Storm , but my wife’s HD shoulder gun was an M1 Carbine for a year or so. There is an excellent short piece on the M1 Carbine as a PDW down in Terminal Ballistics. Sometimes people who are new to guns warm up to the M1 Carbine because of history , traditional wood & steel appearance , and rep as a good guy gun . Not saying that’s rational , but I have seen it happen repeatedly.
M1 Carbine can be a very good choice for HD, especially with a couple of tweaks.
The M1 and Storm are both good choices. The M1, depending on it’s vintage, may be a cheaper starting point, but that will soon change as ammo cost for training comes into play. As far as the Storm vs. most rifle caliber weapons the Storm will have much less flash and muzzle blast/noise making it better for indoor use if it were ever called upon. If you have ever shot a 16" 9MM they can be (though I don’t recommend) easily shot without hearing protection which you will not have in a SD scenario. The Storm will have less overpenetration and less chance of a stray round becoming a danger should it make it outside the confines of the house.
Buckshot 1220 won’t get any argument from me about any of that.
Just to build on what he said:
Over penetration on gel and mammals is a consideration - and there is quite a bit of info available about that . The bullet stopping effects of the combination of the felon’s body and various interior & exterior walls are less clear , at least me. Some shots miss , that’s another consideration.
M1 Carbine mag’s , parts , and troubleshooting/maintence info are relatively economical and easy to find. The owners manual that I usually suggest as the first book for new Carbine owners ( and maybe the only one that they will ever need ) is:
" The M1 Carbine Owner’s Guide" by Larry L.Ruth and Scott A.Duff. Around 130 pages.
" …Owner’s Guide " would answer most of the typical new owner’s error-net questions and also help them to calibrate their drivel detection systems.
ehryk:
Try here: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=480258&highlight=prosecutor
In particular here: http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=107135&d=1255435279
I don’t agree at all that a “clean shoot” is a guarantee against prosecution. IMHO it is largely a factor of where you live and the inclinations and biases of the prosecutor and the community.
The thread on the THR are Mock, not actual… so it’s worthless, unless they can compare real statistical data on actual convictions and evidence, given the same circumstances.
They were mock but appear to have been formal experiments not just speculation. I think it would be pretty difficult to measure jury or prosecutor bias in a real trial.
There was another posting not too long ago referencing a newspaper article that specifically stated the prosecutor decided to proceed with charges because of the “military SKS rifle” used in the defensive shooting. I have not been able to track it down. If I do I will post it.
I will err on the side of caution in my choices of HD hardware.
I have a couple of Beretta Storm 9mm’s set up for home defense. I purchased off of gun broker for under 600 for one, and just over 600 for the second.
The biggest complaint that I, and others, have regarding the Cx4’s is the crappy stock trigger.
I ended up making several modifications that addressed the trigger and made the gun(s) not only funner to shoot but much better suited for home defense. I have the 30 rounder magazines but use those for fun only as I have read that there have been mag failures, but have yet to have any myself in the 2K that I have ran through them so far. I have 17 round mags with 3 round extensions for home defense.
The controlabilty is excellent with minimal muzzle blast, etc. The way they are set up makes them a joy to shoot!
Cx4 Trigger, Guide, Hammer and buffer:
http://www.sierrapapacx4.com/
Cx4 Disassembly Instructions:
http://www.tacticalexcellence.com/stormdissass.html
Extras:
Cx4 High Capacity Mags (9mm 92FS):
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=938507
Cx4 High Cap Magpul:
http://www.magpul.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=80_95_101&products_id=204
Cx4 Flashlight Mounts
http://jtdistributing.net/store/flashlights_flashlight_mounts.html
Cx4 Flashlight Nylon Bushings (so standard LED AA Flashlights can be used)
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=321106
Cx4 LED lights
http://www.4sevens.com/index.php?cPath=297_330
Cx4 Sights:
http://www.meprolight.com/
Cx4 Sling (personal favorite):
http://www.vikingtactics.com/prod_sling_VTAC-MK1-a.html
Cx4 front Sling QD Sling Swivel:
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Midwest-Industries-MCTAR-08-HD-p/mctar-08%20hd.htm
Here are a couple of photo’s on how ours are set up FWIW:
