Need a pocket gun - Kahr P380, Sig P238, others?

General Firearms Handguns - Semi Auto
1

After some thought about the different clothing and social situations I’m in during daily activities I’ve found I definitely need a pocket gun to compliment the full-size M&P40 I currently carry and the M&P40 compact I plan to match it with. There are certain times when even the compact M&P is going to be way too big such as when I’m wearing athletic shorts or in certain social situations so I’m now looking at a small .380 for pocket or ankle carry.

I’ve tried the Ruger LCP - didn’t like it because the small trigger guard and long reset pinch my finger. I don’t care for the fit and finish of the Kel-tecs and they seem hit or miss reliability wise.

So far the top contenders I seem to have left are the Kahr P380 and the Sig P238. I like the look of the Sig and the nice sights but I see some downsides in the extra step of disengaging that small safety lever to get it into action and the exposed hammer getting caught or fouled by something. Plus I haven’t shot one. Then again I haven’t shot a Kahr P380 either but I have tried a friend’s MK9 which I actually enjoyed shooting. The Kahr seems expensive for what you’re getting though.

So thoughts? Advice? Any other good, reasonably priced alternatives to look at?

2

As far as pocket pistols go, I really like the Kahr. I have never shot the PM380, but I have a PM9 that is awesome.

I would suggest the PM9 to anyone looking for a micro 9mm carry pistol. Get a nice IWB appendix carry holster, or one of the DeSantis “SuperFly” pocket holsters, and it disappears.

3

My two pocket pistols are:

[ul]
[li]S&W 642, J-Frame .38 spc in a mika pocket holster[/li][li]Glock 26 in a fist pocket holster[/li][/ul]

*Both sport crimson trace lasers

I find that between these two it is very easy to carry on almost every occasion. I’ve tried the Kel-Tec’s in .32 and .380 but they’re not for me. Not too bad to shoot but the glock and snubby give me a better warm and fuzzy in the arena of reliability. YMMV

Stay Safe
GU

4

For pocket carry, I use J-frames and Glock subcompacts. I have little need for anything else, and they carry easily in my wardrobe.

Also on the acceptable list, the Ruger LCP or KT P3AT. The Kahr PM9 is a good choice. Verify function of all prior to carry.

I’ve not been impressed by the reliability of the Sig P238s I’ve seen. Nor am I fan of pocket carry of a single action auto. There really isn’t a good reason to choose it.

5

I’m looking at picking up either a Kahr PM9 or possible a j-frame. Not sure how much pocket use either would get, but I’m planning on adding a pocket holster and one or the other to my every day carry at home. Come home from work, take of the G19 and work clothes, slip into short pants and slip the compact into a pocket.

Interesting tidbit, the PM9 weighs 14 oz., 15.5 oz with the magazine (no ammo). The Smith & Wesson 442 is 15 oz. unloaded.

I always would have thought that the J-frame would be lighter, but evidently it’s not always the case. Problem is the Kahr is nearly $700 while the 442 is more like $450.

6

i use either one of my j frames or my g.26

7

Of the two you mentioned, I’d take the Kahr P380 (when you can find one) over the P238, simply because I’m not a single-action guy. That said, the P238 is a really nice little pistol - SIG basically gave its GSR 1911 treatment to the Colt Mustang design. It can even use Mustang mags, which is nice considering how many of those are out there and how (relatively) inexpensive they are.

A friend of mine recently loaned me his P380 to test-fire for him, and I did so alongside the C&S-tuned Colt Pony Pocketlite which has been my 24/7 pocket gun for a few years now.

Here’s my review, as posted to a state gun board to which I belong:

Hey, all! A co-worker of mine bought a Kahr P380 a couple months ago, but has been unable to shoot it due to ongoing health and scheduling issues. So he brought it to me along with a couple spare mags and some ammo, and asked if I’d wring it out and report back to him. Duh, OK. :smiley:

So this afternoon I happened to be down at lovemywoods’ place doing some troubleshooting on a couple of guns in preparation for NFA Day, and figured I’d shoot the little Kahr alongside my customized Colt Pony Pocketlite and do a bit of comparison/contrast. lovemywoods and esrice graciously agreed to help out. :wink:

The P380 was unfired prior to today, beyond anything done at the factory before shipment. The Colt had a documented 725 rounds through it.

The Kahr and the Colt:

esrice shooting the Noisy Crickets:

My results:

Some thoughts:
SIZE The Pony’s grip is nicely hand-filling while the P380’s seems almost too thin (think Kel-Tec P3AT or Ruger LCP here). Both guns only allow two fingers on the grip. The P380, being slimmer and lacking the beavertail found on the Pony, is a bit more concealable. Capacity on both guns is the same, 6+1. Advantage: None.

SIGHTS The P380’s sights are of the “bar-dot” pattern but are extremely low profile. They are better than what pass for sights on the P32/P3AT/LCP, and are even preferable to the standard Pony sights (rear notch and integral front blade), but the custom Cylinder & Slide front sight on my Pony was much easier to pick up. Plus, the P380 shot consistently low at 7 yards. Advantage: Pony.

TRIGGER The P380 trigger “feel” is identical to that on my P9… smooth DAO with about 1/4" of take-up, ~6# break and a long reset. No surprises there. It blows the stock Pony trigger pull out of the water, and is shorter and lighter even than my C&S tuned example. That said, I felt I could manage or “stage” the Pony’s trigger more easily. lovemywoods also preferred it by a small margin. Advantage: Pony.

RELIABILITY The P380 burned through 110 rounds including 3 types of FMJ and 2 types of JHP, without a single malfunction. The Pony had 1 malfunction in an equal number of rounds. Advantage: P380.

ACCURACY Despite the fact that it shot low at 7 yards with all ammo types, consistency and accuracy were outstanding. Average group sizes with the P380 were smaller than with the Pony, and I had multiple holes touching on several occasions. Advantage: P380.

In closing, the Kahr P380 would make an excellent backup or deep cover gun. It has usable sights, is small enough to conceal easily but has enough size and mass to be a comfortable shooter, has a good trigger, is quite accurate for its size class, and is boringly reliable. As esrice said, “it’s everything Kahr, only smaller.” :slight_smile:

The P380 with factory night sights is supposed to be available by year’s end… I will have one.

8

Have you looked at the Walther PPS?

9

I saw that review after googling p380 reviews and found it very helpful. My FFL actually has a p380 in stock. If I go with the p380, do you think it’s worth waiting for the night sights (I noticed you plan on doing it)? I can see the advantage of the night sights but since I don’t have a pocket gun yet I figured I might as well have a non-night sight model now that I can use and protect myself with rather than wait.

I looked at the PPS but not the PPK/S so far. I have two Walthers already (a P99 and P22) so was naturally interested in the PPS but it and the Taurus 709 slim, Kahr PM9, Bersa, and KelTec P11 were all bigger than what I need. They kind of split the difference in size between the M&P compact I plan on getting and the P380. The way I saw it, if I were in a situation I could conceal one of those I could just as likely conceal an M&P compact. What I need is something small enough for deep concealment basically.

10

If you have nothing now, and your local guy has a P380 with standard sights in-stock, grab it. If you want N/S later, you can always send the gun in to Kahr or the 'smith of your choice to have them put on.

11

For pocket guns, I use a Glock 26, a S&W 642, and a Kahr PM9.

Of the three, I feel the most confidant with the G26. The PM9 is the most used as a pocket gun/backup gun. The 642 is nice, but if choosing between it and the PM9, I always chose the PM9.

I want to like the new bread of 380’s, but I can not seem to warm up to trusting the caliber, when I can go with a 9mm, in just a slightly larger, and still concealable package.

If you are comfortable carrying a 380 as a defensive caliber, I am not going to argue the point. But for me, not so much…

12

I feel the same way, go with a Kahr in 9mm and run some rounds through it.

13

How about a Rohrbaugh Pocket 9MM or .45 ACP ?

Just to be different.:wink:

14

Do some looking and you’ll find the PM9 w/o night sights can be had in the $525 to $550 range and around $650 with nights.

As far as the OP goes, I have two pocket guns, a PM9 and a LCP. The PM9 has roughly 1,000 through her no hiccups except that for some reason it doesn’t like Gold Dots. The LCP has 400 through it with no hiccups. Both are fine guns for the pocket though the LCP is more suited toward lighter materials/tighter fitting clothing.

15

I thought about a PM9 long and hard and certainly would prefer to have a 9 over a 380 but as I mentioned there are certain situations where a subcompact 380 would be the only decent gun I could carry discreetly. You know what they say about the first rule of gunfighting is to have a gun in the first place. At least it’s not a .22 or .25 :slight_smile:

Looked at those too but man they’re expensive! And seem to be just as hard to get as the P380 or P238.

As for the P380 the shop had, I was wrong and apparently that was just a display model and not for sale - wasn’t clearly marked unlike the P238 display gun. Ironically, one of the guys I know there said they might give me a deal on the display model P238 so depending on what they give me I might spring for it.

16

I carry a Kahr PM9 in my right front pocket in an Alessi Roughout pocket holster. I haven’t tried the P380, which is slightly smaller and lighter, but I haven’t found the PM9 to be excessively heavy. Prior to the PM9, I carried a S&W 340PD, which is about 3 ounces lighter than the PM9, but I don’t think that there was much of a difference in perceived weight while carrying. I went to the PM9 from the 340PD because I shoot better with the autoloader than I shot with the revolver.

17

Rohrbaughs are nice little guns and fit a pocket really well. It just makes me feel better knowing that I have at least a 9mm on hand. Here is the only size comparison pic I have (R9s next to K9):

18

A .380 may be better than a poke in the eye, but there are no loads that meet the minimum penetration requirements for a defense gun, per the FBI protocols. As my brother Pat Aherne says, “If you shoot me with a .380 and I find out about it, I’m gonna be pissed!”

If one must have a .380 for this purpose, the P380 is a decent choice, although pricey. If landing on a Kahr, the PM9 is almost as small and provides better terminal ballistic performance. It’s pretty darn tiny already, and one gives up significant terminal performance for negligible size and weight difference if choosing the .380 over the 9mm. For the purposes described, an SW 442 meets that mission very well, and since reloading is unlikely – making the advantages of detachable magazine feeding moot.

For the record, I cannot encourage the use of .38 Spl or 9mm over .380 enough. Yes, properly placed, even a .22 can be lethal to humans, but given the dynamic aspects of real self-defense incidents, the .380 all too often comes up short.

Good luck, as I am certain Doc GKR would concur.

19

The difference in size, weight, and inconvenience between carrying a .380 and 9mm is so minimal that there just isn’t a good reason to consider the former.

.380s are best left to third or fourth guns.

20

So this thread, plus the LF thread(s) inspired me to dig some stuff out of the safe.

Mind you, I’m 6’1" and a litle under 170 these days so I’m a scrawny bastard. Guns tried were a Colt Mustang and a Keltec .32, both in pocket holsters.

I gotta tell you, I’m starting to think that I was right all along about pocket carry for me. Neither of these guns come close to hiding, and the Mustang prints so bad that it is painfully obvious that it is a gun. The Mustang pocket holster is from Kramer and the holster for the Kel Tec is from Sam Andrews.

From this experiment I don’t think there’s any way in hell I could conceal a J-frame, and I know for damn well that a Glock 26 ain’t hiding like this on my body.

Just some food for thought. I’m able to have an un-tucked shit (t-shirt or polo) about 95% of the time whether at work or not and I think I’m going to be sticking to IWB. I just don’t see front pocket as viable for my body size/shape/type.