Well let me first state that I am looking for a pocket gun that I can just throw on when I am wearing some light clothing as I live in Phoenix Arizona. I have narrowed my search down to 2 guns.
#1 Kahr PM9
#2 Sig P238
Purpose of the Gun
I want this pistol to fill a gap in my current pistol lineup. I have an HK P30 v3 that I prefer to use when I can conceal it. I also have an HK P2000sk 9mm LEM for when I wear slightly less concealment. I want a gun that I can just throw in my pocket if I am just wearing a plane t-shirt and shorts as I often wear in the summer. I also plan on using the gun in a smart carry holster when I am at work. Lets just say that my work is a less than a permissive environment for firearms, however I think my life is worth more than my job.
Reasons for the Kahr
I like the idea of the Kahr as I currently have 2 9mm pistols. I can just focus on buying 9mm instead of trying to hunt down 380 auto ammo.
The Kahr uses 9mm, I have complete faith in the 9mm being able to due its job if I do m part and get good hits…however I cant say I have that kind of faith in the 380.
The Kahr comes with an extra magazine compared to the Sig.
The Kahr has a DAO trigger and will fit my other guns better than the the Sig’s Single action only.
Reasons for the Sig
I like the look of the Sig a lot better than the Kahr. If i got the Sig I would get the rosewood grips.
I am planning on getting a Springfield EMP 9mm soon and selling my HK P2000sk so having 2 cocked and locked pistols wouldn’t be as big of a deal as I would be used to always flipping the safety off with my thumb.
The Sig is slightly smaller and would conceal easier than the Kahr.
Did I mention the Sig looks better?
I have been going back and forth. The Kahr makes more sense since it is 9mm but I would take the Sig in a heartbeat if it wasn’t in 380. I have looked into tests of 380 JHP’s to see if any can reliably give 12 inches of penetration and they seem too inconsistent. I’ve thought of using just flat nose FMJ’s or even alternating between FMJ and JHP to try and solve the penetration issue.
Questions
I am left with the following questions
Is the 380 an ok round for the purpose I will use it for? Pocket Carry.
Does it matter that I might be carrying a DA/SA P30, a SA Springfield EMP, and then a DAO Kahr or SA Sig?
Most will agree that the .380acp falls short of being a good defense round. Some say that it will kill but not stop or incapacitate an attacker. He may die much later after he has already harmed the victim.
I’ve never had much luck carrying pocket pistols in a satisfactory manner except for j frame Smiths in a pocket holster. The other guns were too heavy or bulky, and they imprinted. For me drawing the pocket pistol is awkward. Also, how safe is the little Kahr if it’s loose in your pocket? Is it like having a loaded Glock loose in your pants?
Be careful what you sit down on.
kahr has a bit of a spotty record with their polymer guns…
i don’t care for the sig at all due to the SAO design and safety. i’d be very hesitant to carry a gun cocked and locked outside of a holster… being a “pocket gun” this could be an issue.
for 380’s i’d probably go seecamp or something. kel tecs are alright as well.
why pocket carry? if you could go with an IWB holster or a smartcarry a glock 26 or something like that would be a much better choice.
snubby 38’s are where my head always ends up when i start thinking about pocket carry.
I am leaning towards the PM9 even though I like the Sig better. Its just makes more sense to stick with 9mm. I really don’t like J-Frames so they aren’t an option. I have tried to carry my P30 and P2000sk with my Smart Carry but I still think it is too bulky and not comfortable for long periods of time. I think with a smaller pistol it wont be so bad. Also I would be using a pocket holster, I would never just carry a gun loose in the pocket.
I was hoping to get some insight from people that do carry a 380 on why and if they use just FMJ’s or JHP’s.
It doesn’t take a .44 magnum to cause someone a world of hurt. .32 caliber firearms have accounted for a lot of trouble over the years, being used all the way from the trenches of WWI to blowing the brains out of Hitler.
I personally am not a fan of the .380. My preferences go straight from .32 to 9mm. To each their own.
In a pocket holster, mouseguns are perfectly safe. One is not meant to simply drop them into a pocket. I use a combination of holsters depending on what I am wearing. The pocket holster is great in the wallet pocket, or the front pocket if the pants permit it. My favorite is my Fobus paddle, however. With an un-tucked shirt, it never manages to print on me. I have an ankle holster for those times when it is the only option.
As for the draw, it is lightning fast from my Fobus. It only slows a bit from the pocket.
I’ve also got an Intratec Protec .25. I mainly purchased that for fun, however. For those times when nothing else will work, I’ve got several antique Colt single shots that are in perfect condition.
Laugh all you want, but many a life has been quickly ended by these tiny guns.
I have larger firearms for carry purposes, but I am perfectly happy with the Keltec.
i like my kel tec. kahr makes a great pistol, but the subcompact kahr serves no more purpose then the kel tec does and it costs a lot more. if you wanted a larger caliber, look at a kel tec pf9.
I have a both a Kahr PM9 and a Colt Mustang, which is very similar to the Sig, and the Kahr is the better option IMHO. The Kahr is a little bigger but I don’t like the idea of a cocked and locked SA in my pocket. I’ll carry my Mustang IWB but if I carry it in the pocket it goes hammer down on an empty chamber, which is a pretty poor compromise. I also have a Ruger LCP that has been 100% and is my prefered choice for a pocket gun. I find that anything heavier than the LCP rides poorly in the pocket and would be better off in a IWB holster.
I have similar dilemmas as the OP. I’m using a S&W J-frame that I got for a steal for around the house pocket carry but still haven’t come up with a viable solution for dressier days at work. For most of my career I was able to wear jeans & a polo shirt under which I could conceal just about anything but lately I’ve taken a path that requires more conservative dress and still haven’t come up with a solution I really like.
In a “make due with what you’ve got” mindset I’ve been trying out the Kel-Tec P32 that I’ve had for years. My normal carry is a Glock 19, so there is at least some similarity in terms of no external safety to forget about (or go needlessly hunting for), etc. However even as tiny as that gun is, I still need to hunt down a viable pocket holster for it.
Not to hijack the thread, but if anyone has any suggestions on that front, I’m sure that the OP is going to run into the same issue regardless of which option he chooses.
I have an early PM9 that I continue to carry in a Desantis Nemesis, front right pocket. Works well and goes just about anywhere, even if a tad slow on the draw compared to hip carry.
I’m using 147 grain Gold Dots and carry the spare mag loose in my front left pocket. I had some initial hic ups and Kahr sent me a new barrel back in 2003, I have 750 or so rounds through it now and it runs fine. Probably need to keep an eye on the recoil spring, so far it works for me.
I just purchased a S&W 442 with Crimson trace 405’s for the wife’s first CCW, this also carries in the front pocket nicely in a Nemesis, draw is a bit quicker then the Kahr.
Personally I prefer the little Kahr with night sights, very accurate for what it is, much more pleasant to shoot then the beastly little smith, with a much quicker reload and a very nice double action trigger.
The .38 Smith would be my second best choice and absolute minimum caliber. I’m looking into Buffaloe Bore standard pressure LSWHP 158’s for it. Otherwise Gold Dot’s might be a good choice?
I think that the lightest, smallest, and most reliable handgun “right now” that packs a decent punch would be a J-frame revolver in .38spl+P.
I’ve looked over that thread several times and its the main reason why I don’t have the confidence in the 380. However there are still a lot of people that carry 380 pocket guns as BUG. As far as J-Frames go I just have no love for them. I don’t like how they shoot and the slower reload. Only have 5 rounds worries me as often criminals work in teams. Ive read countless threads about 380 and I still cant decide if it will be an adequate round as a last resort. Given that I will carry something bigger when I can. I guess if the PM9 can serve the same purpose it would be better to go with the more powerful round over my personal tastes in the look of the gun. That’s where I am at right now, however I’ve flopped back and forth on this one several times.
The link below is a really cool comparison of the different size of pocket guns. As you can see the Sig is just slightly smaller than the PM9.
Personally I just don’t see much use for the .380, unless it was considerably smaller or lighter then the PM9 or the J frame, not to mention ammo is pretty scarce isn’t it?
There is what I consider to be a good Kahr thread over on Glock talk to find out the latest, I haven’t been there for awhile. But generally the thread is up to date with info to help you decide.
Kahr’s have had their issues, and I’m not up to speed on CS and QC.
I was talking to a shooting buddy the other night about his newer version, he’s absolutely thrilled with it.
I actually don’t like revolvers either. I use a Sig P232 as a BUG as “most” of its manual of arms mimicks my full sized duty Sigs. I am aware that its limitations are lack of penetration through barriers, and if I have to shoot through an arm before hitting my target’s torso. So my ammo selection is very picky, and I work around its limitations. Better .380acp loads are the Hornady XTP 90gr, or the Hornady Critical Defense load. Both of those loads offer at least 10" of penetration. If you can’t get one of those two, it might be wise to go with a FMJ to ensure good penetration.
I wouldn’t jump on the Sig P238. It has mixed reviews when it comes to reliability as most tilt barrel compact .380s do. The P232 is direct blow back which is more reliable in .380 provided that the feed ramp is ideal…which in the P232 it is. Also, the P232 has been used for years in many Federal agencies that use Sigs. Most of ours have been excellent performers in reliability, durability, and accuracy. The P232 is a bigger .380, but it handles much better than typical .380s and it is only 17oz.
I used to carry a Kel Tec in this Mitch Rosen holster. It did not print in light shorts or dress pants, the front side has a suede covering that helps that. Due to an unfortunate accident I no longer have the gun. For me it was very reliable and what I mean by that is I put approx 500 rounds through it without a failure. Pocket guns like the KT are meant to be shot a little and carried a lot.
