I posted this over on the 1911 forum, and I figured I should share my experiences with all of you as well.
I purchased it in the summer of 2010 from Elmore’s in Indianapolis. It was my first high end 1911 purchase, and I spent a lot of time researching what I wanted in the ultimate conceal carry 1911. At that point, I had > 3000 rounds in my Kimber CDP 5" (which served me quite well), and I wanted to move up market to a gun I knew would run for 10-15k rounds. I settled on a NHC Talon II bobtailed commander with a steel frame, as I felt it was the perfect mix of durability (steel frame), reliability and accuracy. Likewise, the contour of the frontstrap and trigger guard of the Nighthawk was a little bit higher than the Ed Brown but not as high as a Wilson. Combined with the 25 lpi checkering, it fit my hands quite well. So far, it has been with me to Gunsite 250 and 5 days of Larry Vickers classes. I have also shot numerous IDPA matches with it (and even a couple of steel matches for the heck of it). I can only think of a few places where it has malfunctioned, both of which were due to bad magazines or ammo. Even when the ejector broke, it still ran like a champ.
Original specs/configuration:
Cerakote black
4.5 lb trigger
White front dot with tritium insert, plain black rear
Modifications since then:
Diamond black finish (Ionbond)
Replaced slide stop with 10-8 slide stop, as the Nighthawk one wore out and would not lock back the slide on the last round (see pic)
Replaced two Nighthawk ejectors due to breakage; now I currently have a Wilson ejector installed by a local 1911 gunsmith here in Charlotte (so far so good after 500 rounds using Nighthawk magazines only)
My last NHC ejector, installed by Nighthawk:
Replaced standard recoil spring system with a 22 lb Wilson Combat flatwire recoil spring system and a #25 reverse plug, just because I got tired of changing recoil springs every 800-1000 rounds (as stated in the NHC manual)
VZ Grips: Why? Because they kick ass and give you far better grip at matches and courses when shooting 100-200 rounds on hot days. I have them on all of my 1911s (tactical diamond pattern)
The good:
The commander length frame combined with a Milt Sparks VM2 makes drawing the pistol from its holster far easier than with any 5" model. A commander length gun is the way to go for CCW and IDPA in my opinion. A government length frame is indeed better in terms of control, because you can rest your support hand thumb on the dust cover easier. However, you can train yourself to control a commander length pistol just as well as a government length one with practice. The loss of sight radius is not that big of a deal in most cases, even at 20-25 yards.
No reliability issues except for a few bad magazines and a few bad rounds (1 Tripp Cobra Mag and 1 Nighthawk ACT magazine, both of which choked at LAV’s class). The gun always ran well from the moment I shot it. Even with a broken ejector in place, the gun would still eject fine and run without malfunction. No issues with various JHP rounds i"ve tried (Gold dots, Federal HSTs, Winchester PDX-1s), although I run 230 grain FMJ loads >95% of the time.
Very accurate. Shoots better than I can shoot.
Zero issues with NHC’s customer service. My rep was Larry Lyles, whom unfortunately was no longer with the company. I could always get a hold of him by phone or e-mail. Very easy to deal with.
The bad and ugly:
Ejectors: Yes, I broke two ejectors. How? My Wilson ETM magazines and Tripp Cobra magazines sit way too high in the magazine well for their own good in my NH. The feed lips would ram up against NHC’s extended length ejector, which resulted in the ejectors breaking. When I was on my 2nd ejector, I switched to using NHC’s stainless steel magazines mostly (except for a few 47Ds and Wilson ETMs), and I still had the same problem. After doing some measurements, I determined I needed a shorter length ejector altogether and recently purchased a standard #34 Wilson ejector (not the commander length 34E model). The gun spits out ammo like a mad man, always in the 2-3 o’clock position. Only a few have gone backwards. No malfunctions yet after 500+ rounds. I am now exclusively using NHC Stainless steel magazines (as pictured at the top). They sit lower in the mag well than even my 47Ds, and of course, noticeably lower than the ETMs or Tripps.
Slide stop: After I hit the 3500 round mark, I noticed I had some issues with the slide locking back on the last round. Upon examination of the slide stop, I noticed a fair amount of wear on the part that engages the magazine follower. I suspect this may have been from my use of Tripp magazines the first 1500+ rounds (as they possess a hybird polymer/metal follow), but I never had this problem with my Kimber CDP. After doing some research, I replaced it with a 10-8, which dropped right in perfectly. I have had no issues since then using NHC magazines.
Magazines: As mentioned above, you MUST use NHC magazines. NHC designs their guns for their own magazines, as Wilson ETM and Tripp Cobra mags sit too high in the magazine well. This is what I don’t like about my gun, because I frankly think NHC’s stainless magazines are inferior to Wilson 47Ds or Wilson ETMs with flatwire springs. I base this on my own subjective examination of the followers and spring strengths. We’ll see how well they hold up with use (I bought six of them, which have experienced about 800-1000 rounds divided amongst them), but I would imagine they were meant to be replaced every season of shooting rather than allow one to change the magazine springs each season.
Finish: NHC’s cerakote finish flaked off the gun onto my hands and arms from the moment I shot the gun. To be frank, it was the worst finish I have ever seen. A gun of this price should have something equivalent to what Glock or HK uses. When my first ejector when to hell after the first 1000-1500 rounds, I had the gun shipped back to NHC for ejector replacement and had them Diamond Black the gun at the same time. If I had a do over, I would have ordered the gun in Diamond black from the beginning. IonBond is truly the way to go for a serious use 1911. I don’t care much about cosmetics, so IonBond suits me well.
Would I do it again?
If I was in 2010, yes of course (minus the bobtail and add Ionbond). Since it’s 2015, I would purchase an aluminum framed Wilson Professional model with the custom features I want from the beginning and a flat wire recoil spring system. Most important, I pick the Wilson over the Nighthawk in 2015 because I want to use Wilson magazines. I also would ditch the bobtail for a round butt magwell or plain extended magwell. I think the need to reload quickly outweighs the benefits of a bobtail’s ease of concealment, even in a CCW situation. I always carry a spare magazine and a Surefire in a Wilson holster when I conceal carry. I have learned to effectively change magazines under stress with my bobtail, but an extended magwell makes it a heck of a lot easier. I found this out when I embarassed myself during LAV’s class doing the 6-6-6 drill.
Awesome thread! Reading about how the magazine interaction with the ejector has me headed to the safe to see if my mags might cause the same issue at some point.
Hilton Yam makes good stuff, and that’s why I went with his slide stop after doing some research. It dropped right in and required no fitting at all. It works with every since magazine I’ve tried (Wilson 47D, Wilson ETM, CMC Powermags and Nighthawk’s). I only use Nighthawk mags because of the ejector issue. I can slam a 47D into my frame right now (which has the Wilson ejector at present), and I see no interference. However, the NHC magazines give me a few hundredths of an inch of clearance. I don’t want to take a chance this time.
The old Colts I’ve seen use the more standard or classic type ejectors. I can’t tell you about the new Colt models that everyone praises, because I have not taken one apart yet.
Regardless, the length of an ejector (“extended” ejector) really needs to be tailored to how the magazine sits inside of the frame and the caliber you’re shooting. A few hundredths or thousandths of an inch appears to make huge differences, and this is another reason why every 1911 maker has their preferred magazine choice. I base these statements on my own self-education of this platform and through the informed opinions of gunsmiths and well known 1911 people I’ve met the past several years. Anyone who owns a Jerry Kuhnhausen manual knows how particular these dimensions can be. I just wish I had more free time away from work to learn about this more and build my own 1911s.
Thanks for explaining. I like Hilton’s stuff as well. All of my Colts are recent production, and they get Hilton’s stuff as I go about doing upgrades. When I had Mars Armament build my 1911, I sent magazines along with it to ensure they would be compatible. This has been a great thread, I hope you’ll give us an update down the road.
I would say no to the Kimber CDP for several reasons. I had a plunger tube bust off at 3500 rounds on my 5" version. They don’t stake it to the Aluminum frame (Kimber replaced it free of charge though). Also note that your MSH and magazine release are made of plastic, not aluminum. You can’t simply install steel versions either, because this could damage the frame. What’s worse is that Kimber does not use a steel feed ramp on their aluminum frames, and I see this as a problem beyond 5000 rounds (I reached that amount and then got rid of it). Last, anything that has a firing pin block in the 1911 platform turns me off (S&W included). It makes working on the pistol a lot harder, and when you learn about the internals of the 1911, such safeties are unnecessary. The traditional thumb and grip safeties are all you need. If you need more safety than that, then carry condition 3.
Dan Wesson appears to build a good product, on par with Ed Brown by almost all of the reviews I’ve seen. I’m not sure what .45 mags it’s compatible with though.
I love my Nighthawk, but the fact that I can’t use the same Wilson ETM magazines that feed my X-tac drives me nuts. If you want a Talon II for conceal carry, get an aluminum framed version and make sure NHC installs a steel feed ramp on the frame or uses a barrel with an integral feed ramp.
Whatever you do, forget about getting a gun with a bobtail if you plan on using it for more than just conceal carry (like IDPA or a gun class for instance). Buy one with an extended magazine well. My choice would be a Wilson Professional 4" with a flat wire spring, and a rounded butt magazine well for conceal carry. Nighthawk makes a Bob Marvel commander length pistol that has a flat wire spring as well, and it appears to run quite well but costs $4000.
Mad angler, I have been shooting a NHC Talon II bobtail since November of 2006 with around 7500 to 8000 rounds through it. I use the NHC stainless and Wilson Combat magazines with the Tripp Cobra Super 7 kits in them without issues. I also use the flush Tripp Cobra 7 round magazine and the 8 round Tripp mags work fine too. NHC put a new style ejector and removed the Cerakote finish did a melonite finish for me about 4 years ago. Their new ejector is different and allows for taller magazines. In using Tripp magazines, I remove the slide from my 1911 and hold the frame ,then I insert the Tripp mag and push it up as high as possible to make sure it doesn’t touch the ejector.If it does , take a small file and remove a small amount of metal until it doesn’t touch. I had to do this to a Wilson built 1911 and a 5 inch NHC and they’ve worked perfect for the past 7 years. I’ve had no issues with my WC or NHC slide stops using this setup.
2011 is the time I had the first ejector replaced, followed by a second the winter of 2011-2012. My round count dramatically went down the past three years due to work, but the NHC ejector finally broke again around 2013 (ironically I noticed it after the state Indiana IDPA match, where i used a mix of Wilson ETMs and NHC magazines). I just didn’t get it replaced until recently due to work, and because I have been shooting my P30 a lot. Regardless, no one at Nighthawk has told me that they redesigned their ejector (at least from the phone conversations I had with them, after Larry Lyles left). My 47Ds appear to work with this Wilson ejector I installed, so I’ll play around with a few spare ETM magazines I own. I already sold all 6 of my Tripp mags.
Mad Angler 1, I run a square (EGW type) square firing pin stop , Nighthawk brand, a 16 lb Wolff recoil spring with a commander size GI guide rod and a 25 lb Wolff main(hammer) spring. The bobtail mainspring housing uses an officers size mainspring should you decide to go that route. This setup IMO makes for a reliable , fine recoiling commander.
