He has never shot a precision rifle before, the only type of rifle shooting he has done is bump firing a cheap AK and shooting an M1A (horribly) from the bench at 100 yards.
He’s trying to buy a Kimber or a Tikka souped up tactical rifle (and put a $250 scope on it).
How the hell do I convince him to start somewhere else? I’ve tried telling him that a .300 Win Mag is waaayyy overkill for his abilities and it will probably induce flinching at the recoil.
I have a Rem700P with a 20" barrel in .308 that he never shoots. I offer and he says “Nah, too weak. Its only a .308” but I ding steel at 800 all day. It took me almost 4 years of shooting to get to this level. What exactly he is looking to do beyond that, with no formal training or past experience, I don’t know.
The one time he has shot my Remington 700 at 300 yards he couldn’t get any of his shots in an 8" circle…from the bench…with sandbags, with the scope on 24x…and a Timney trigger.
What do I tell him? I can understand getting a rifle. I can understand wanting 300 Win Mag.
I cannot understand wanting a “designer brand” for your first rifle. The $500 he’d save getting a 700 or a Savage could be put to a better scope.
IMO Savage and Remington are nothing to shake a stick at. Build them up and trick them out even more if skill really increases. But you’re right, start with good optics.
Tell him they are “designer” brands. Build their reputation in his mind.
Tell him to read here. Does he read any precision shooter stuff?
Although they are not Bentley’s and Ferrari’s of precision shooting, they are Mercedes and BMW’s; compared to Ford Pinto’s. (not to offend any Pinto owners out there)
If he is unable to take sound advise then I say this “A fool and his money is soon departed. Thankfully, I am not that fool.” What else can you do besides tell his wife. lol
Let him know that a .308 is still a really great round give stats on it and let him know that there are good rifles out there that you can make into a decent tack driver using the .308
“.308 is a perfect round to learn on and build the skills you need to become a good long range shooter. You can take it out to 1000m as you build your abilities and it will force you to learn how to read wind and call it which is really the make or break part of long range shooting. You also get excellent barrel life and relatively cheap match ammo. A .300 win mag will start to lose accuracy in as little as 1000 rounds and can create/reinforce bad habits. It’s also expensive to shoot expecially when you factor in barrel costs. A bad shooter with a .300 WM is still a bad shooter”
Show him Lowlight’s youtube videos shooting 18" barreled .308s out to 1000m.
In the end you probably won’t change his mind if he doesn’t want to change it. Let him keep being an idiot, maybe he’ll let you keep his brass.
So do I. But I wouldn’t give a 16 year old a Hayabusa motorcycle because he knew how to ride a bicycle.
Maybe he’ll sell it to me because its “junk”
“But BRO, Listen! A .300 Win Mag shoots like, twenty feet higher at 1000 yards than a .308 does. Its faster, so there is less wind movement…why people use the .308 still is beyond me”
Thats the mentality I am dealing with. He thinks with a .300WM, a walmart 3-9x scope and a bipod he is going to setup and start nailing steel at 1200 yards, even though he can’t hit the paper at 300 yards with my rifle. His excuse is because its a .308 and he’s “not used to it having so much drop”. Not sure how that works because the scope is setup for POA/POI at 300 yards with a twist of the elevation turret.
I’m by no means an expert, but I like to think I have a tiny bit of formal marksmanship training. He refuses to listen. I will shoot him an email with links to what he should be buying and post his response here.
Have I mentioned he has absolutely no idea what MOA or mils are?
You have no idea, I already outshoot him in everything. Handguns, AR15s, AKs, it doesn’t matter. I actually outshoot him with his own weapons. I think he is just about having the “status” of owning an HK USP, an FN Five-Seven, or now a Kimber Tactical, as opposed to actually knowing how to use it.
Perfect Example, he bought a Wilson Combat Shotgun for a stupid amount of money. Every-single-time he fires it, he fails to bring the pump back hard and fast enough inducing a failure to eject. Every single round. I’ve showed him how to man handle it and get proper feeding and ejection but he is content with sticking to his own habits and using his finger to work the spent shell out of the receiver. :rolleyes:
You can hit with your .308@300 yards and he can’t… that’s called a clue and if he can’t catch it then that’s his own misfortune.
At this point I say let him buy what he wants and then when the rifle doesn’t perform to his expectations maybe you can get hits with it and then the light bulb will go off in his head… I doubt it though.
edit: Just read your last post. I know how it is because I have friends like this too.
I told him its common for a reason, and now he’s looking at .338 Lapuas
It would be funny, but I know this guy. He’s honest to God going to buy something that is way too much gun for him. I’ve seen him drop $1500 on a DSA FAL pistol like it was nothing…if only to be single again.
If he’s going to buy it anyway then you might as well use it to your advantage. Talk him into getting a really nice rig like an AI and then borrow it from him. You could get your own optic in a quick release mount and an Atlas bipod and put your stuff on when you go shot it.
We see this all the time the “magnum phenonomon” its pretty common. Just let him do what he wants, it obvious he thinks he knows better. The Tikka is a better rifle all day long. Kimber look nice but if he ever dicides to change the rifle in any way, good luck finding a reputable riflesmith to do the work.
I started with a 308 and progressed to a 300 win mag but mine has a brake on it.
I, and other Americans like me, are thankful for your friend and their service to our firearm industry.
You tell him that his plan is badass and let him go on ahead and support our economy however he sees fit, because if you think you’re going to talk him out of it then you’re operating on his same level, mentally. I think you’re better than that!
That being said, I understand wanting to buy something totally badass that you can “grow” into, but as others have mentioned, the .300WM is going to PREVENT growth, and a Wal-Mart scope will render the system moot. However, if he is as happy/happier than you are with your .308, regardless of the viability of his skills or platform, then he got his money’s worth, no? You may think it’s stupid, but then, someone who spends a ton of money on sports cars/tires may think people like us who spend tons of money on firearms are stupid and how could we possibly find joy in sitting behind something that nudges our shoulders, assaults our ears, and pokes a tiny hole in something hundreds of yards away.
Different strokes for different folks, if he is truly your friend and won’t listen to your logic, just enjoy his happiness with him and have fun at the range and whatnot (as long as he is safe).
I started with a pellet gun (when I was around 5) went to a .22 when I was about 12, went to a .223 when I was a bit older, and quite frankly, have not yet been to a range at which the .223 is out of its league. Last time I shot my .223 I was doing about 1/2MOA with M193 at 415yards (if you discount the 3 or so out of 10 fliers in each group due to that wonderful Q3131 consistency). If the range had gone back to 800 yards or so, I bet after a good bit of trial and error, I could have launched some 75 or 77gr OTM’s into a man-sized target on a calm day. In fact, Some .223/5.56 have comparable/better ballistics regarding drift than many common .308 rounds. I think less is more. I don’t know a single person who can shoot a .300 more accurately than they can a .223.
If he can’t take advice, that sucks.
If he’s going to waste his money, that sucks too, but it’s his money and some people have to learn the hard way.
If it was one of my close friends and I thought that our friendship could handle some temporary angst, I’d probably tell him that buying a nice rifle isn’t going to fix poor shooting habits or a lack of skill.
You’re not in Florida, by any chance, are you? That sounds just like a lot of douchebags I’ve met from there. All about “I gotta have a S&B, Bro!” but don’t know a mil from their MIL.
