I’ve shot quite a bit of CCI 400s through my AR. Most of the people I shoot with use them exclusively as well…I can’t say I’ve ever seen a pierced primer. I’ve seen plenty of reloading manuals list them for .223 as well…
In my experience, a roll crimp is sufficient for .223, though I use the Lee Factory Crimp on all of my .223 reloads as I feel it is much more consistent.
First of all. I agree with everyone who has said that crimping is not necessary. I put no crimp on any 223/556 ammo I load. Proper resizing will take care of set back concerns. Also, SR vs SRM or 556 primers. It is my belief that when loading at 223 reloading book velocities. Regular Small Rifle primers do fine. But when you load to 556 velocities and pressures increase. It is wise to use primers with harder primer cups. Not only to protect against slam fires. But I have found the harder cup gives my loads a tighter seal and keeps gas from blowing by and damaging the bolt face. I have had this happen. So I speak from my experience. Your experience may differ. But certainly cheap insurance. Plus…I can get mag primers at the same cost. So why not use them?
Just because you haven’t experienced it yet, doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1504506
http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php
I have personally witnessed two ruined bolts from guys trying to load Mk262 5.56 pressure loads over CCI 400s. The ones that don’t pierce are flattened and cratered.
Magnum primers cost the same and are insurance against fucking up your rifle.
But hey, do what you want. I’m just some guy on the internet.
I agree with QuietShootr on the use of magnum primers as my above post indicates. Primers cost the same, so why not use them? And I did have a bolt face etched by escaping gases using stand primers and 556 loads.
You really shouldn’t begin load development for an individual rifle by looking in a load manual, picking the Max load, and backing down a couple of tenths of a grain of powder. Most every load manual states to begin at min and carefully work towards max, looking for excessive pressure signs in between each load. For example, you can load 5 rounds at the manual’s minimum listing, then load 5 more increasing the powder charge by .5 grain. From the IMR data for a 55gr it would be something along the lines of 23, 23.5, 24, 24.5, 25. As you approach max I usually make the charge weight change in smaller increments like 25.2, 25.4, 25.6 and 25.7 which is shown as max. You have little idea if your throat in that particular rifle is cut on the minimum side, your brass may possibly be on the decreased capacity side, lots of things to cause pressure increases. There are other methods of working up a load as you become more experienced, but without any experience, working according to the books is a safe place to start. You’ve got a lot of variables to deal with when loading such as powder lot, charge weight, bullet design, bullet weight, case capacity, case quality, case neck thickness, neck tension, and chamber dimensions to name a few. If you don’t understand how charge weight and bullet weight relate to one another, stick with the book as you’ll be much safer.
Thank you sir!
I will use your method to make a several loads in small steps from the min load and do as you said. Ill post results tomorrow afternoon.
Much appreciated.
I agree with Hound in terms of approach. But 25.5 is still 1.5grs lower than Lyman manuals show as max. It is right in the middle. So you should certainly be safe enough. Like I said, the approach suggested is a pretty good rule of thumb.
Well yes, loading extremely hot loads need a magnum primer, that should be common knowledge. To say CCI 400s are unacceptable for ANY .223 load is just plain incorrect.
Having a number of different manuals available for cross reference can be handy too. I’m not sure what version of the Lyman manual Herd is referring to, but the Lyman 47th, 48th, and 49th editions all list 26gr of 4064 as max with a 55gr SP.
Also on another note, NRA has reloading instructors which can be found. The course material is good and would give a new reloader a solid foundation from which to work from.
Hound is correct. Thanks for the correction. It is also a compressed load. I don’t use 4064 so I appreciate the correction Hound.
Magnum primers have more propellant in them and do not have thicker cups. Magnum primers also increase pressure because of that fact and the load needs to be backed off 10% and worked up again.
This whole debate on primers is foolish. There is something else going on when people eroded bolt faces with pierced primers. It’s an overload for your rifle. Do not assume that you have a 5.56mm NATO chamber, do not assume that you buddies load will work in your rifle. Each load needs to be worked up.
Actually, you’re wrong. Small rifle standard primers are thinner than small rifle magnum primers. This is NOT the case with any other size (LR/LP/SP).
Here is one guys research on primer cup thickness
That’s fine gentlemen and I stand corrected on the cup dimensions. The referenced method of load development in that article should not be used in my opinion. Using case head expansion from a measured fired factory load is fine to duplicate, but what he is doing is dangerous and I’m not surprised he had pierced primers.
I can promise that I have shot thousands of 69 & 80 gr loads as fast as I could get them using WSR primers, W748 & H4895. I never had a pierced primer. I did rip the rims off with FTE so does that qualify me as an expert? Lesson learned, read the wind and not the chronograph.
Work up your loads using the components specified in the book. Don’t mix cases and don’t get hung up on velocities. It is a 223 btw don’t try to make it a 22-250.
I shot them all today. Was no problem with any load. the 75s were fine, no sign of high pressure.
My 1/9 barrel does not like the 75gr
But, I did shoot 4 inch groups at 100 with Irons, standing and rain soaked glasses. I did not get a chance to test with my scoped HBAR upper… hopefully the weather will be better next weekend. But overall, very happy.
Thank You All!
My experience certainly mirrors Mr Calhoons research in terms of primer differences and pressure. Magnum primers work better in “my guns” using “my loads”. 
What powders do you all run for a standard 55gr load? The IMR that I am using is a very large grain powder, burns very dirty, and does not measure consistantly in my powder measurer because of its large size. Any sugestions would be great. varget is not available as of now, in my ariea.
I use two other powders. H335 and Benchmark. Both are excellent powders for 223. And, they meter very well. They are both fine grained powders. Varget does not meter as well. But I like the performance. This is not to say that the other two are second rate. Far from it. But each of us has to decide which we like for our purposes. Those two should meter perfectly for you.
I’m a fan of H335 as well. I get consistent loads through a thrower and I’m at about 2800FPS with 55gr FMJBT through my 10.5" SBR, a fair amount back from the max load.
Varget. Very temp insensitive, and meters well.