Which weapon system would you say best suits the needs of a CQB, clearing type operation against non-armored threats?
I understand the MK18 was developed to essentially replace the MP5 in CQB type situations due to the increasing threat of engaging individuals equipped with body armor, while also maintaining mid-range capabilities, that being said, how would you rank each platform if pitted against each other in a CQB environment against non-armored threats?
The MP5 being more controllable at higher rates of fire, and also being more compact and maneuverable, while the only strong suit I can see for the MK18 is firing hotter rounds, which could potentially lead to over-penetration in (some) circumstances
I mainly pose this question as sort of a home defense/ clearing scenario, which would you rather have and why. Any thoughts?
There’s a reason the MP5 is more or less extinct these days. I believe its called a clue. Lets put it this way, the MP5 is essentially a very large handgun.
The MP5 is basically the king of CQB simply because of the controllability and compactness.
I have a MP5 (Clone) and a MK18 (type) and have run both in shoot houses. The MP5 owns it IMHO.
Where the issue comes up though is that you will NEVER know what kind of threat you will have to deal with so this is why the 5.56 based weapons make more sense.
I understand your point on a civilian side, but I am mainly asking just in general, as if there were no NFA laws and no Demo letters needed, just able to own either or.
If you ever get a chance to watch Ken Hackathorn run a MP5, it will make your heart stop. Something to witness and will make you want an MP5 in the worst way!
just sort of a hypothetical comparison, as in, is a MK18 type setup really much more superior to an MP5 type on the civilian side, in regards to limited range CQB
Some one posted am article by Ken Hackathorn here, not too long ago. He said (essentially) what Grant said. I’m on my phone, so linking it is beyond my scope. OP, you would have more of an over-penetration concern with the MP-5 than you would with a Mk18.
I used to run a full auto MP5 several years ago. It is definately the king of CQC. However, once you get out of that CQC environment and ranges beyond 75yrds the M4 is a superior choice. So, as a jack of all trades combat tool, the M4 or other assault type rifle is a superior choice. The MP5 is a niche weapon…just like the shotgun.
This gets into a interesting conversation (in regards to ammo and penetration). There are two main routes to go with .223/5.56 ammo. Standard Duty loads (like TAP) or barrier blind rounds (like Federal T1/T3, SPEER 24448, etc). The regular 55gr TAP will fragment (out to say 50-60yds from a 10" barrel). The barrier blind rounds will mushroom or open up like a HG hollow point would, but still keep going.
So from a safety standpoint (meaning, missing and killing someone in the next apartment or home), ammo that will fragment is a better choice. From a capability standpoint (shooting through glass, wood, drywall, etc) the barrier blind rounds are a much better choice.
With that said, a 9mm hollow point and a barrier blind round are somewhat similiar in that they will keep going through walls. Is one “safer” than the other? Don’t know.
The M855 is a poor choice for this type of shooting IMHO and would not recommend it.
Having carried and used both in MIL/LEO settings, I will take a 5.56 SBR/MK18 over a MP5 anyday. The MP5 is an excellent weapon for its intended purpose when properely utilized but with advancements in weapons and ammunition technology, it has become very niche. As far as controllability and compactness , thats nullified by training. I can do 2 or 3 round bursts from a M4 with the selector on full just as easy and accurate as a MP5 on burst. Grant makes valid points as far as ammunition is concerned. It is just hard for me justify using a MP5 today when you compare it to the versatality of a 11.5 M4 series weapon.
The MP5 is supposedly more controllable during high rates of fire. Ive never fired on full auto though so Im just going off of what I have read. The downside is that it still shoots a 9x19.
The Mk18/Commando weapons have more recoil than a MP5 but does shoot a far more effective round. It also would be effective against an enemy wearing body armor.