I’m sure this subject has been discussed, but I couldn’t find a good thread on it.
The AR platform is probably the most modular and adaptive platform available today. I know many people utilize this for their initial setup, and to build a carbine that fits their exact needs/tastes. My question is how many of you use this modularity to utilize a carbine for different purposes, and I don’t just mean just switching uppers.
I’m asking because I have had a bug to build an SPR/Recce type of carbine for a while, which would mainly be for fun and possibly some hunting. I first looked at building a complete carbine, and then at just an upper. Lately I have realized that there would not be too many differences between my HD carbine and the recce I would build. I already have a quality M4 with a free floated barrel and QD accessories. If I purchased a magnified optic and bipod with ADM mounts on both, I could convert my HD gun into a respectable (for my purposes) Recce type carbine in a few minutes. I could also fit all of this in a small hardcase.
How many of you have gone this route? How many of you have considered this, but decided against it? Why?
I ask because this just doesn’t seem to be very popular, and more uses seem to equate to more (yet similar at the base) carbines for most folks.
It’s not very popular because of a few reasons. I’m not going to break them down individually, but the short and skinny of it is that building up a lower one way and using it with multiple uppers isn’t a big deal. Infact it creates consistency. Building 1 upper and switching around all kinds of parts, for most people, is retarded.
I would much rather have my SBR upper set up the way I want it, keep my PDW upper completely stripped of anything but a set of folding irons, set my general purpose patrol rifle up without any non-essential items, put my bipod and long range scope on my SPR upper, and just switch between them to fit the role.
That way, the SPR upper can have a precision stainless barrel that doesn’t get abused with high round counts, and I can dump mags through my PDW upper without worrying about screwing up a precision barrel.
Well, to some extent I use the modularity. I have an ACOG that I use sometimes, but I do take it off and install my Daniel Defense iron sight if I want to shoot with irons. If I get into Service Rifle competition, I’ll be putting a carrying handle on it.
If I shoot just at the range with normal clothes, I prefer an A2 stock, but will sometimes take the lower off of a carbine (it is not a stand-alone lower, I take it off of an assembled carbine) if I am using gear.
The reason for not having major components (ie, a spare upper, rails, etc.) that lack a “default rifle” is that the lower receiver, and really the lower half entirely, is just not that expensive.
It’s kind of why the SIG-Sauer P250 has failed so miserably in the market. You’re paying 100% of the price for one pistol, and then 90% of the price of a second pistol… but you don’t actually get all the parts for that other pistol. And, the part that is keeping you from having another pistol is a piece of stamped sheet metal with a fire control group in it… what is probably about an $80 part if it is being sold for a fair price is standing between having one pistol and some parts, or having two pistols.
I hope that addressed your question… I kind of felt like I got on a tangent.
I was going to mention SBRs in my original post, as that does make a difference. I am in a situation where an SBR is not possible, or that would lead me to several different carbines. Still, there are some members here that shoot to some pretty incredible distances with short guns.
As far as stainless goes, I’m not talking about a two mile tack driver. Just the ability to reach greater distances and precision than is possible for me with an HD type of configuration. I have the feeling that a mil-spec M4 with a free floated barrel, magnified optic and good ammo would outshoot most people’s abilities at longer ranges.
I agree that building another gun out of a completely outfitted upper would make sense due to the relative cost. But building another upper/carbine based almost entirely off of optics is what I am questioning.
If I built a Recce/SPR upper it would have a very similar upper, rail, buis, and light to my HD type guns. The only difference would be stainless vs. CM and a possible variance in barrel length. So I’m probably pushing a grand or more for a new upper that isn’t going to do much different than my current upper, aside from hold different accesories/equipment.
So you’re proposing that you would remove your rail, remove your barrel nut, switch barrels, and then reinstall all of that to switch between roles?
Not saying it can’t be done… but it’s begging to introduce reliability and/or accuracy issues. You’ll have to re-zero every time, and confirm reliability every time. And, those parts are not designed to be messed with on a regular basis… you’d probably break something in short order, such as damaging the upper receiver threads.
I get what you’re saying. My general purpose upper would be a 14.5" with a pinned muzzle device if I didn’t already have an SBR lower. ACOGs are good optics, but from having used them in combat, they are just that, a combat optic. If I wanted a BDC reticle, I would probably go with a 3x magnifier on a twist mount, and an EOTech EXPS3-4. It’s the 4 dot version of the optic which allows in some form an elevation holdover.
I’m a believer in setting up a specific rifle up for it’s intended purpose, or as a multi faceted general purpose rifle, and using it inside of what it was designed for. It will always be what it is, and never be what it isn’t. I don’t plan on trying to turn a hammer into a chainsaw, therefore, my rifles (or uppers) suit very specific roles and for the most part, won’t get used outside of those roles unless the situation dictates otherwise.
Short and simple answer. It’s easier to pop two pins, remove an upper, replace another, pop two pins, and be done, than to unscrew, unclamp, or otherwise remove attachments, only to place another, just for modularity purposes. The AR does have modularity, it’s called takedown pins.
No, sorry if I wasn’t clear. I’m saying that my current carbine has a BCM 14.5 upper, Centurion Arms ff rail, Matech BUIS, and Surefire weapons light. If I built a Recce rifle/upper it would have a BCM upper with a similar barrel length, Centurion Arms ff rail, Matech BUIS, and Surefire light. That is a lot of costly redundency IMO soley for a nominally different barrel, when I could just switch optics and snap on a bipod.
OP - I’ve been debating the same thing recently. Basically the same rifle with different optic. I do not have experience with any QD mounts. I would assume that there would have to be some amount of shift in zero, particularly at distances when you would be using a magnified optic. Maybe that’s where a RDS with a magnifier that could either be flipped to the side or on a QD mount would work well, but I was more thinking of variable power scope as opposed to a red dot with magnification.
I’ve seen your videos of your 600 yard shots with your SBR. Quite impressive. When you switch between the RDS and magnified optic, do you see much of a shift in zero? Do you get “true RTZ” or pretty close with the ADM mounts? Or maybe close enough for your tolerance.
I only wish SBR’s were legal where I live. You’ve definitely got a sweet setup!
You mean I could have just bought one AR and had a couple of different optics?
Where is the fun in that?
In reality those 4 ARs are basically the same in terms of rails and furniture. The difference in most cases is the barrel length and material/quality, trigger and optic which leads to changes in operating envelope.
In total honesty I get “true RTZ” from my ADM mounts. I have RDSs that RTZ at 50yds, and then 10x optics that will RTZ at both 100yds on paper, and 600yds on steel. I’m really a big fan of ADM mounts and have been using them for a number of years now.
every time I try it, I end up spending another $350 or so a few months later and getting a dedicated lower for it… and hence another gun. While swapping upper isnt a big deal, just plain lifting up the right gun is even easier.
