Sssshhh. You’re ruining my strategery.
[b]I wouldn’t ordinarily respond to this type of thing, but since ADM decided to “trade” heavily on our unique “look and feel”… as easily seen from Bravo’s website, it’s no trouble at all to see that the “designer” had four of our very well known mounts on his desk as he “designed” his new lineup - our LT-150, our LT-152, our LT-129, and our LT-104 …
Copied from an earlier post of mine on TOS ----
Early on we looked at doing a cross-bolt system. But not for long.
We could not overcome the fact that it all relied upon nothing more than the minor-diameter of an 8-32 screw (.130") or a 10-32 (~.151")… with an 8-32 being nothing more than a 1/8" wire (.125"). Every way we came at it, both the 8-32 and 10-32 stretched, and then stretched some more … and sometimes broke.
Another issue was/is that the 1913 picatinny slot depth (.118" / +.008) doesn’t allow for below-center placement of the screw. Matter of fact, (IIRC, as it’s been awhile), then it puts the center of the 8-32 screw some .060 above the center of the picatinny dovetail. We weren’t comfortable with being on what we considered to be the “wrong” side of that dovetail. The 10-32 gets even further away.
Thus we went the route we did. Takes much longer to machine, requires an upper level of precision, requires staying on top of it, but the results are, at this point, unbeatable.
I tell my guys to eschew absolutes, but I will step out of our norm on this issue and challenge anyone and everyone in a repeatability contest.
Nobody has beat our repeatability. We got guys shooting 1/4" groups at a 100, while pulling the scope off between each and every shot. I myself have shot 3/8" groups at the end of a 600 round torture test. Yep, that was pulling the scope off and putting it back on between each and every one of the 600 rounds.
As far as pricing, we had to throw the cost book in the sh*tcan and pretty much mirror price like we were M.I.M.'d components, or else folks would not have taken a first look. But look they did, it worked, we got a bit faster, and here we are.
Aerospace quality at blacksmith prices. :^)
We found that numerous opening and closing on the cross-bolt system seemed to be the equivalent of worrying a wire back and forth until it comes in two.
Of course YMMV.
ML
ETA - Nobody mentioned that the DSG/ADM mystery-shop deleted our Battery Storage Compartments. Apparently the BSC’s drove costs up more than they could stand. I have to say that the BSC’s are a bit of a hassle and of course it would be easier to make mounts without them. [/b]
Mark,
The stretching you had with your screws, what kind of screws were you using? Did they stretch after being fastened (static load) or just during the tightening (dynamic load)?
Everything is a gamble until it’s been proven, over and over again.
I keep reading “some people are married to their gear” and I have to add that some people flirt with the new gear when they have better gear at home. I just hope they don’t get a mechanical version of the clap.
I’m a LaRue fan and until it fails me, I’ll keep my LaRue stuff.
Exactly.
ADM might will be serviceable, heck, it may be the cat’s ass. I wish them well.
However, there’s just something about a product line where there’s a real guy out front putting his name on every piece, the ability to call that guy up or pull him aside and say, “hey, WTF?” if there’s a problem, and knowing that the guy whose name is on the widget will be the guy resolving the issue.
The technical info on the ADM is interesting, thanks for posting, Mark.
Like Knight’s???
Another good example, with the caveat that the end users have had a little more accessibility to and interaction with Mark Larue than the latter.
I have my ML3 mounted on a GG&G goose neck mount and have perfect cowitness with the BUIS
Yeah III from KAC is here as well as LaRue (both of these guys like feedback).
KAC mount was first really good one followed by ARMS, GG&G, PRI and Wilcox, then LaRue, and now ADM…chicken or the egg?
[b]Like I told the other guys…
…if there get to be enough safe-queeners out there, who simply can’t sleep at night because of the miniscule “spot” that our very much combat-proven “Speed-Lever” mounts might put on their weapon, then we’ll bend to the will of that small group and bring out our old, and what we could call MFP* design. It is our earlier crossbolt model, sh*tcanned, but not forgotten. Who knows, if we dropped all the precision anti-thread-strip hardware out, dump the Battery Storage, and mickey-mouse the levers, the damn things will be much easier/cheaper to make. The MFP’rs could toss one of those red-chicom-dots on it and be cookin’ with gas.
I can hear the air-soft market screaming from here. Ah yes, the ShotShow will be interesting.
ML
MFP* - Mounts For Pussies [/b]
Personally I prefer the Larue mounts – but I’m comparing a pre-production ADM to the Larues (and ARMS that I am stuck with some some stuff that foolishly built the crap into their items - cough NVEC and EOTECH cough")
I would prefer if the American Defense Manufacturing mount was more grunt proof –
Fixes to me would be
- Not possible to install rings upside down
- Lose the springs on the side bar (I lost one on install - I found it - but its a PITA, and a place for added dirt and corruption to gather. I dont see the need for them.
As Trey Knight said competition is a lovely thing, I am all for more manufacturers than can produce a quality product in a timely fashion.
I will be getting more mounts for more stuff
– my go to war stuff with remain Larue at least until I’ve had a chance to evaluate the ADM stuff in the long term, and realistically as Mark Larue and LT have been good to me, unless ADM comes up with a much better mousetrap - I will stay with someone I am comfortable with.
Same reason I use KAC URX rails.
I concur. Especially on #1. When I was installing mine it was a definite WTF moment.
Fixes I’d like to see on the LT would be
- No wrench required for adjustment
- Reversible levers
Mark, where is this thread on TOS?
Good point.
LaRue advanced the state-of-the-art in mounts, bringing to the scene adjustability to provide ideal fit on rails of various dimensions, machined levers vice fracture-prone MIM, and return-to-zero capability. I’ve read ADM’s ad copy, but I’m not really seeing any advances. In fact, the extent of ADM’s return-to-zero capability is still an unknown. Time will tell.
LaRue has earned loyalty through superior product, stellar customer service, and amazing support to the warfighter. What will ADM do? Time will tell.
I won’t bash the new kids on the block until they’ve had their day in court, but LaRue has set the bar very, very high.
FWIW I found the ADM mount quite easy to attach to the ML3, and was up and running in mere minutes. The lever lock works well, and the tension was easy to adjust. I tried the mount on a Colt and a couple of RRA flattops, no gouged anodizing resulted, and the lever tension appears more than adequate to prevent any shifting. The dual recoil lugs only allow a slight fore/aft movement prior to locking the lever. Overall weight including the ML3 was 11 ounces.
Now the only hard part is deciding which “cave days” EOTech 502 it will replace.
Paladin
ps, I’m now looking hard at their scope mount for holding a spare 2x7 Leupold…
pps, many thanks to BravoCo for fast and well packed shipping!
Oh Jeezus…:rolleyes:
Well, if an independant enity wants to youtube a ridiculous rd count/ repeatability test and compare 10 LR, and 10 ADM mounts… that’d be cool.
Kevin B. Don’t use the PRI Gas Buster handles on 416’s. Numerous documented, non-clearable, failures. Memos/messages sent out in some circles.
Kevin B PM sent
Dan, weird
–so far they are running fine – and LAV and Ken H have them on their guns too.
Was/Is it a specific to the earlier guns —as these are OTB’s
Thank you for your input.
We got these mounts in and they appear to be very good. I also looked at some other forums and people are saying that the mounts are repeating zero. http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=160329#160329
I am going to do some repeat zero testing and see what I get.
C4