if you read the article it is pretty clear that the govt is contributing to the plan under this new proposal. Currently, they do not – just what you put in – but under the new plan the govt would contribute to it as well.
After 24 years I have 3 blown discs in my back that I get the nerves electrocuted every 6 months to turn off the pain, bicep tendonitis in both shoulders, arthritis in all of my major joints, spine and neck and they gave me two hearing aids on my way out the door.
If I live for another 60 years to be 104 I thank you for my $2100 a month retirement check. Still waiting for the VA to make a determination after 6 months, but not holding my breath. At least I still have everything attached I started with and I just don’t see a reason to dwell on the negatives. There are a lot of guys in worse shape than me and I’d go nuts if I lived to see a negative in everything around me. More power to you if you can keep it up.
Then you should get disability pay. For every guy like you how many made it to 20 years working a 9-5 stateside job? I already said those with servive related disabilities should be compensated. That doesn’t mean every member who makes it to 20 deserves another 40 years worth of pay outside of disability payments. By all means if you get out, and can’t work a paying job you should be compensated. My BIL gets money every month, and I have no problem with that.
Try to disconnect the 20 year mark with lifetime pay and we will get somewhere. Tons of people are medically discharged short of 20 years but because of their discharge they get lifetime payments, too. If 20 years is too much get the medical retirement. There are already programs in place to deal with the service related injuries. No it doesn’t always work out. Neither does the systematic policy of gov employees working for 20 years, and getting retirement for 40 additional years. You are working for the people in this country not a part of a welfare program. Self sacrifice was part of the creed we learned in basic. Not work for less than 1/2 of my working time and “retire” less than half into it than everyone else. Retiring at 39 (I joined at 19 meaning 20 years would put me at 39), and expecting monthly payments from 39 to my end.
No worries man; I work because I can, I enjoy it and I know I can’t do it forever. Plus keeping active makes me feel better; physically and mentally.
The VA system is wonky at best.
I think the point you’re missing is the government made or at a minimum agreed to the deal of lifetime retirement payments at 20 years of service. It’s now their obligation to uphold it for everyone they made the deal with which means if properly implemented it would be 20 years from today before a change took effect if implemented tomorrow. We both know that won’t happen; they will either change the plan mid stream for some people or scrap the idea after they get whatever else it is they are leveraging the heart strings the public has towards GIs.
They really shouldn’t make agreements they can’t keep, but that probably a whole different thread.
One other thing to keep in mind here is that, even under the current system, military retirement checks aren’t quite as robust as folks might otherwise believe them to be. I have a dog in the fight, of course, but my purpose here isn’t to advance any particular viewpoint. Just trying to provide a bit of perspective.
To use a personal example, I do feel that I have been more than fairly compensated over the past 27 years for time spent in combat, jumping out of airplanes, flying helicopters, slogging it out in austere conditions, spending years at a time away from my family and living overseas; however, none of these conditional entitlements have any real applicability to a retirement check.
In retirement, the pensioner receives a percentage of his base pay, without any of the special pays and allowances that made up his monthly paycheck while in an active status. Now, I’m not suggesting that this a flawed way of doing things, but it may be worth pointing out that, even if you were clearing $6,500 every month prior to retirement, you might be very fortunate to clear $2,000 thereafter. “Retirement” in this context most often means having a house payment covered (and perhaps a car or boat payment as well), but it will still be necessary to get out and start a second career.
Every situation is different, of course, but for those who may be unfamiliar with the system, I just thought it was worth pointing out that very few military retireees are able to really “retire” on what they receive after spending 20 years in uniform.
AC
I think most people would be shocked at how much better off they would be, if they gave up the defined benefit retirement completely.
Contribution plans are the shit. Especially if you put money into them starting at age 18. And especially if there is a match involved.
The example of the $17k a year retirement check leaps out. It really doesn’t take that much effort to build a savings that will throw that off annually over 20 years of steady contributions.
Chad, I supplied the link, I quoted from the link, I have read the article numerous times. Where did you read that the government will contribute as well?
Keep in mind, my current job is writing and managing contracts for the government. This new ‘retirement’ plan isn’t even in the systems requirements review stage yet. By not clearly pointing out that the government would contribute says a lot.
As I posted earlier, I have lived through a ‘retirement’ change in 1986. I was put into the new system without a choice. The options were pretty much written up the same way that this new deal is. I didn’t get the retirement package that the servicemembers that entered in 1986 but in the long term it still took $400 a month from my original retirement would have been had they not changed the law.
Read what Army Chief and I have been posting here, the retirement package isn’t the golden goose egg that everyone appears to think it is. It is nice, and it does manage to keep people focused through the substandard conditions, separation from family, and the giving up of rights that civilians take for granted.
We are going to hollow out the forces with this new retirement scheme. For the past 10 years we have been unintentionally screwing over the small unit leaders. They haven’t been training thier troops. They have been getting PTP lock key training. They show up with the troops at an appointed place and time and get trained. These small unit leaders will eventually get to middle management without the knowledge or ability to conduct in house training.
Add in this new retirement and there is no incentive to suck it up for 20-30 years. Why bother, if the heat gets too hot in the kitchen, leave the kitchen.
The problem with the military is that there is no one that looks out for them; no union, no social group, only present and past members.
There are too many over paid government retirement plans out there. From the President to Congress, to local governments. There are many people that during the last year of government service volunteer for extra hours because the retirement pay is based on the last year of service. Note; I know this holds true for many local governments, it may not apply to federal.
As long as you have the contributions tied into the stock market, there are no guarantees. Here’s a pretty good article on it:
[i]As of early 2011, the financial markets had regained about 80% of their value from the October 2007 peak reached before the onset of the Great Recession. Citing this recovery, some observers have optimistically concluded that the long-term impact of the financial market collapse on workers’ 401k and retirement plans will be relatively minor. Also, many observers note that 401k employee contributions held steady throughout the recession – another positive factor.
But a top-level overviews of the financial market recovery can hide the permanent damage done to 401k and retirement savings for millions of workers. Here are five ways that the Great Recession permanently scarred 401k retirement savings for millions of American workers[/i]
Hi
Right at the top of the article:
In a massive change that could affect today’s troops, the plan calls for a corporate-style benefits program that would contribute money to troops’ retirement savings account rather than the promise of a future monthly pension, according to a new proposal from an influential Pentagon advisory board.
All troops would receive the yearly retirement contributions, regardless of whether they stay for 20 years. Those contributions might amount to about 16.5 percent of a member’s annual pay and would be deposited into a mandatory version of the Thrift Savings Plan, the military’s existing 401(k)-style account that now does not include government matching contributions.
I put the bold in. Also, it says that currently, the TSP does not include government matching contributions, as a contrast to what this plan would provide.
Except that it does.
I disagree. The socialistic, politically charged defined payout plan is much, much more risky than a contribution based plan. It can and is being taken away from a bunch of workers.
This is a horrible article, which acknowledges it is full of shit before it starts speculating and fear-mongering.
The only people whose retirement savings is “permanently scarred” are the stupid ones. Someone who is smart enough to contribute regularly, and realizes that they don’t need every single penny of their money the moment they retire will be okay, regardless of the temporary political wind that is blowing. Barring the completely communization of American economy that is.
I also disagree that there is noone to speak for vets. There are a metric shitload of organizations that lobby for vet programs.
BTW, because I am smart enough to keep contributing in a down market, my per annum return has jumped to 29.9%.
Funny how not being a moron and refusing to pulling everything out worked for me.
And if you are already a retiree, all you needed to do is to economize for a year, and you are back on track.
Now, for those fucking idiots who retire to a 30 year home mortgage and car payment, sorry; you’re a moron and deserve to suffer. Hope you enjoy your overpriced car and house you can’t really afford while smart people economize. It sucks to be you, dumbass.
Chad, nowhere in that article does it say the government shall contribute. This is basic 101 contract management. Please read the article it is clear as to what the end state is.
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me…been there done that Chad. I’m not a SME, Obviously you are. I just have had to live with the crap that the unknowing force on the military.
I’ll grant you this much, this is the first time that I have ever heard military service being equated to socialism.
I signed up for God, Country, & Corps…no mention of freeloaders.
Son of a gun, this is the first time in my life that anyone has thought of me as a socialist. Luckily you are one in a few hundred million that think servicemembers are socialist.
Keep on adjusting your 401k from the comfort of your un-interrupted internet connection. Thank the socialist servicemembers giving you that freedom, you want to take the few pennys away from them because they can’t manage thier accounts. Good for you, thank God you don’t have to put up with the crap that they do, you probably wouldn’t last.
Those of you that are willing to screw over Rudy with the rusty rifle in the third rank that never gets the word desreve to lose you 2nd amendmant rights, you don’t have a fricking clue.
Yeah, Rudy gets too many benifits while Joe Smuck Congressman gets an outstanding retirement after serving one term. I see where the loyalty is.
BTW, my retirement isn’t getting touched by this new twist, it is the young private that is getting the shaft and it appears that there are some on this board that are good to go with it. Thanks for looking out for the troops, remind me not to turn my back on you guys.
Unfortunately for you, this is a news article, not a contract, so it requires English 101.
Read it again. It says right in the article in plain English that the change is from a defined benefit (after 20 years a 50% retirement) to a contributory program like what corporations use. I already gave you bolded sentences that [in]in plain English[/b] says that the contributions are by the program.
The whole style of the article and its form make no sense if it is about canceling the military retirement program and making the service members totally rely on their own contributions to the TSP. The contrast of the plan with the current TSP participation of no government contribution makes no sense in the article if that is what the plan is about. Instead, it is very clear, that they are proposing getting rid of the 20 year vesting defined pension program (in corporate speak) and going to a contributory program where the government would contribute up to 16% or so of the service members pay (in value – not taken from the pay – that makes no sense) to the program. It also explicitly says that the values could be adjusted for those in hardship deployments, combat zones, and however else they need to manipulate it for retention or whatever purpose they would have to manipulate it. That whole thought makes no sense in your claims about the article of no government contribution. The government is going to force people in a combat zone to save more for retirement out of their own pay? WTF?
Read it again. It is very clear, in plain English, what it is about.
You are totally mischaracterizing what 120mm said. He was talking about “defined payout plan” (and in general, in response to the people claiming 401(k) plans are dangerous and not very good deals compared to defined benefit plans) being socialistic, not military service.
Calm down.
Keep on adjusting your 401k from the comfort of your un-interrupted internet connection. Thank the socialist servicemembers giving you that freedom, you want to take the few pennys away from them because they can’t manage thier accounts. Good for you, thank God you don’t have to put up with the crap that they do, you probably wouldn’t last.
Those of you that are willing to screw over Rudy with the rusty rifle in the third rank that never gets the word desreve to lose you 2nd amendmant rights, you don’t have a fricking clue.
Yeah, Rudy gets too many benifits while Joe Smuck Congressman gets an outstanding retirement after serving one term. I see where the loyalty is.
Calm down here Hoss. No one here has stuck up for lavish Congressional retirement or spoken out against military retirement. We are discussing how military retirement might change, not claiming that military people deserve no benefit.
BTW, my retirement isn’t getting touched by this new twist, it is the young private that is getting the shaft and it appears that there are some on this board that are good to go with it. Thanks for looking out for the troops, remind me not to turn my back on you guys.
The young private is not getting the shaft. The CURRENT retirement system in the military is what gives the young private the shaft. According to the article in question, about 83% of service members never reach 20 years and so get NOTHING. The new proposal would give all of these people something to take with them. Last I looked, something is greater than nothing.
You are wrong with your claim that the proposal does not include government contributions. It most certainly does, explained in plain English, and that is why for most service members, this new proposal is probably a much better deal. They get to keep their plan assets even if they don’t stay for 20 years, which more than 3/4s of the service members do not.
And if you play your cards right, with this new plan, after 20 years of participation, you will probably have a greater payout with the new plan than you would under the old plan.
And service members currently already serving would, under the new proposal, get to participate in a reduced way in the old plan as well as in the new plan.
Truth be told, even if they cut pensions, I’d still sign up and re-up.
I take pride in wearing the uniform and serving even though the pay isn’t great, my knees are being ate up, and my wife doesn’t like it.
I still have a very romantic view of volunteering for service, knowing full you’ll probably give up more than you’ll ever get back.
Government contracts are written in English 101, I realize from your ‘SME’ perspective you understand this, but the article does not articulate it.
PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, read the article and then read this thread. Your posts vairy from high and to the right to low and to the left. The only thing that I can offer is that I have been there done that in 1986. It doesn’t make me a SME like you but I have learned a couple of things since that time.
While many civilians laugh at ‘Catch 22,’ it is a reality in the military as you know. One simple word would have made it binding by the government.
This is exactly what the current retirement offers. I never looked at the 20 mark, the only reason that I retired is because after Gunny, there is no rank that still works with the junior troops.
I am retired, I know for a fact that I have given up more than I will ever get back.
The only difference is that today’s Private will not benifit from the service.
Okay, military 101.
There are more Privates than there are Generals. Signing up for the military does not mean that you will retire after 20 years. If you can’t maintain the standards, you will not be allowed to stay in.
Going with your train of thought, if we have 20,000 Privates in 2011, does that mean we need to have 20,000 Generals in 2031?
Seriously, think about it. There are no gaurantees in military.
Let’s say that eventually it is agreed by Congress that there will be ‘matching funds.’ The article doesn’t say this as you know…that is if you have read it.
So, with matching funds, all of a sudden the E-3 over 8 gets tax payer funded retirement pay. The E-6 that just got office hours because he fell asleep on duty gets a tax payer funded retirement. The O-4 that just shacked up with an E-3 gets tax payer funded retirement pay.
Do you really think this is good?
Really? It has rapidly become quite the socialist, wipe troopies asses and take care of the 6 kids that E-3 popped out place in the US. I am astounded that a dude who should be making minimum wage as a fry cook gets paid as much as he/she does, just based on how big of a litter she/his wife has.
Compared to when I started my military service 30 years ago, it has become quite plush.
I signed up for God, Country, & Corps…no mention of freeloaders.
Son of a gun, this is the first time in my life that anyone has thought of me as a socialist. Luckily you are one in a few hundred million that think servicemembers are socialist.
Keep on adjusting your 401k from the comfort of your un-interrupted internet connection. Thank the socialist servicemembers giving you that freedom, you want to take the few pennys away from them because they can’t manage thier accounts. Good for you, thank God you don’t have to put up with the crap that they do, you probably wouldn’t last.
Those of you that are willing to screw over Rudy with the rusty rifle in the third rank that never gets the word desreve to lose you 2nd amendmant rights, you don’t have a fricking clue.
Yeah, Rudy gets too many benifits while Joe Smuck Congressman gets an outstanding retirement after serving one term. I see where the loyalty is.
BTW, my retirement isn’t getting touched by this new twist, it is the young private that is getting the shaft and it appears that there are some on this board that are good to go with it. Thanks for looking out for the troops, remind me not to turn my back on you guys.
Here’s one. You don’t know me, or have a clue as to what I do for a living. I currently do a damned dangerous job to support our troops. That’s AFTER 30 years of military service. What are you doing?
Anyone else want to measure dicks, PM me and I’ll contact you on SIPR. Standing offer to come out with me on an op. Of course, you need to be in Afghanistan to take up the offer.
BTW, I cannot think of a better gift to give an 18 year old E1 than a mandatory TSP account with .gov matching. Along with some good poop on how to be financially responsible.