Yah, until you have to carry that big guy.
I have seen a 130lb guy ruck 147lbs.
I have seen a 220lb guy run sub 6min miles.
I do not believe there is a steriotype to what you are capable of with your size.
I believe it all falls down to mental toughness and motivation. As an example, I have done some long walks with absolutley no physical preparation for them. I made it because I was motivated by those around me, and was able to bite down, fall into my happy place and stride it out.
PJ
That’s very true. I personally know some shorter, smaller stature soldiers that are machines.
My trainer in this pic is a smaller guy, but he can out ruck me everyday, all day. He’s a prime example of what you mean. Size is only half the story. He was easily lugging 50+% of his body weight over 10 miles including mountainous terrain.
Obviously, being fit, large and muscular is generally more conducive to lugging things around, but that is just the norm, not an absolute rule.
If you think the military has an anti-muscle bias against male soldiers, you should see how bad it is against females.
I’ve mentored females in the military since 2003; the height and weight standard is just idiotic for in shape females. An athletic, combat-capable 5’6" female needs to weigh better than 140 pounds. I’ve had a collegiate sprinter female mentoree who weighed in at 172 and was absolutely ripped.
On the other hand, one of the strongest females I know is 6’ and 115 pounds. Iowa farm girl, and is harder than woodpecker lips.
This is a hard topic for me to talk about. I have always been short and stocky, and back in 1995 I was honorably discharged from the Army for weight control failure. I was 5’7’’ 195lb and I did 100+ pushups 100+ situps and my slowest 2 mile run ever was a 13:30 after 6 weeks of no running becuse I broke my big toe. I had even re-enlisted a week before I broke that toe, but it was this injury that pushed me over the 20% body fat limit. I PT my ass off but i could never get below 21%. One of the hardest parts was getting flagged and seeing every one else in the platoon that you went to 19D O.S.U.T. with getting promoted. Or other scouts getting AAMs for dismounted recon patrols that you led thru the NTC at night with no G.P.S. But that was along time ago and I need to sleep so I can get up and get on the elliptical for an hour like I do every day.
End Rant. . .
When I was in every PT test I took I had to be taped. I’m 5’5" and then I was 165. My max weight at that time according to the Army should have been 154. I only had a 11% body fat though and I always did 100+ push ups and situps and ran the 2 miler in 12:30 or less. That was 21years ago. Today I’ve only gained 10 lbs since then and can still do 100+ situps and pushups. Running is a different story. After the jumping and all the running I have arthritis on both of my knees. I can ride a bike all day and still do hard leg work outs but running long distances is a no go.
Oh yea my max allowed weight was 165lb for my height and age. I was 165lb the first day I stepped off the bus at Fort Knox and 190lb the day I graduated . . .
Side comment.
DITCH THOSE MOLLE PACKS!!!
sorry, I hate those things with a passion.
PJ
Not a fan either.
I’ve been meaning to replace it, I just havent gotten around to it.
Yeah that was me. My loadout for the FX in USMC Scout/Sniper School weighed more than I did. That shit just sucks. Even worse, I fell about 5 min after we stepped off right onto my kneecap.
Here’s an interesting study by 3 MAJs from CGSC. I’m sure there will be some rolled eyes from those who are not members of the Crossfit cult :D, as the study is obviously targeted towards proving the efficacy of CF type training, but there are still some good points that are relevant to this discussion.
The Army Physical Fitness School, then at Fort Benning, Georgia, began testing Soldiers using a 1946 Physical Efficiency Test. This test, created from the lessons of combat during WWII and intended to test U.S. Army Soldiers’ readiness for combat, consisted of the following events: jumping over a 3ft wall, and an 8ft ditch, climbing a 12ft rope two times without pause, conducting a fireman’s carry 100 yards in 1 minute, foot marching 5 miles in 1 hour, running 1 mile in 9 minutes, swimming 30yds and treading water for 2 minutes. After giving this older test to modern day Soldiers, the Army Physical Fitness School found that present day Soldiers were less fit than
their WWII counterparts were. The director of the Army Physical Fitness School attributed this trend to the fact that the current APFT had become the focus of physical training in the Army and that the APFT did not accurately measure the skills necessary for combat, particularly anaerobic skills such as agility, strength and speed.
I know there’s a Crossfit thread, but this seemed a better fit given Will’s original topic. Full disclosure, I’m an avowed (but not particularly good) Crossfitter. However, I’m interested in comments on the study, both positive and negative.
And here is where the wheels come off the “Military anti-muscle bias” argument.
The typical WWII soldier was a skinny little fuck who never touched a barbell or other kind of weight in his life. He also didn’t take performance supplements or guzzle homoerotically named protein powders by the gallon.
What he was was a relatively active person, with a fairly low body weight who did repetitive exercises when forced to by his chain of command.
The problem with the military’s “anti-muscle bias” that I see, is that the great majority of “pro-muscle” military folks are actually fat fucks who have little or no utility on a sustained battlefield. The amount of muscular, lean and useful soldiers that I see from day-to-day is a shockingly small number of individuals.
Of course, our society and style of work has developed a break point between the 98 pound weakling and the lard-ass. I think the culture of a soldier BEFORE he enters the military has as much or more to do with their effectiveness as any kind of training they do while they are IN the military.
The 6’ 115 pound female I mentioned above will not work out unless forced at gunpoint, yet she is still strong as hell, for instance, despite having been off the farm for a number of years.
The “I got kicked out of the military even though I had 0% body fat and ran a sub-5 minute 2 mile” are cool as hell, but when in the occasions I knew the individual telling the story, I’ve always wondered how they could have the 0% body fat yet still be built like a frog.
IME the only people who were kicked out for weight did so after a year + of not dropping the weight.
20%+ for a male is quite a bit even if they can run all day and night. I know it sucks, and the standards are archaic but a 20% BF male is chubby.
I’ve seen three cross-fit related injuries in the past 4 years because people jump into this program and are not nearly physically prepared to do so. (2 people tore up their shoulders, the other blew out their knee jumping on the box).
I also see people trying to do the “Spartan” workout (aka the final test for the actors in the “300”) and seriously F-themselves up. One dude pretty much had muscle failure/cramp while holding the 135lbs over his head and tossing his legs back and forth.
I’ve also seen major fails with Sparticus and P90X. I think people really go hard on some of this crap before they have a clue what they are trying to do.
Also saw a chic throw out her back doing ab-ripper-X.
I am curious to see what is going to happen when the rest of 18th ABC rips in next year. They had guys running around the building where I work with their rifles over their heads on several occasions. I thought I was watching “The Green Beret” where John Wayne yells–Who are ya and How far?
On a funny side note, I had a co-worker who was just not built for anything other than eating donuts. After a long period of time working with him he reached a state of half-way decent fitness. We were on the treadmills one day doing a light-moderate incline 30 minute workout and he cramped up like he had just ran the ironman. He was laying on the floor screaming behind the treadmill in a fetal position. He didn’t know that when you cramp up, stand on that leg and it will go away! After that he started his journey back towards muffin-cat, king of muffins. 
I think people really go hard on some of this crap before they have a clue what they are trying to do.
I think this is also where a lot of those injuries come from when it comes to “crossfit”, “P90x”, “Insanity”, etc. Too much “I can do that!” and not enough ego-checking beforehand. I’ve seen it where guys will try it and push so hard they barf and then quit because they won’t pace themselves. Instead they think they can blow through it like they can doing say 2 min of pushups/situps like on the APFT.
It really takes a little research to know what you are getting into when it comes to training this way and to find out where you should begin.
I’m a believer in trying to be that best of both worlds, ie strong and have endurance. I’m not a big guy either(5’7 and 165lbs), and for the first three years in the army I had to work to stop being taped after a weigh in. Mostly it was eating discipline but also I started doing crossfit and the like and it has helped in trimming down and better PT scores. I never thought I could max the run, I was always a 14min + guy. After I started doing the other stuff(and dropping the weight), I can get sub 13min on my runs.
I’m hoping that big A(and the military as a whole), can find/develop a program where you can train for both. rolls eyes
I’m adding this post to this thread as it seemed a continuation of the topic. I have to admit, I’m confused by this one. I had thought tape testing had gone the way of the dinosaur and actual BF% testing was taking place for those who fell outside the BMI charts. What gives?
Marines Times: Mad as hell about the tape test
Meet Staff Sgt. Jeff Smith. He’s a veteran marathoner, a two-workouts-a-day gym rat, and a 17-year-Marine who saw his career hit a major speed bump when he landed on the wrong side of the infamous tape test in 2009.
If a Marine falls outside the height and weight regulations specified by the Marine Corps (and data provided by manpower officials show about 14 percent of all Marines do) he or she has to submit to the tape test, which takes a tape measurement of the neck and waist and uses an algorithm to arrive at a body fat calculation. Just one problem: experts say that number is often way, way off.
Now Smith is putting it all on the line to protest the tape test. He’s hoping to get a face-to-face meeting with Marine Corps commandant Gen. Jim Amos by requesting mast up the chain of command and make a case for a new standard–one with a level of accuracy that befits the high standards of the Marine Corps.
“If we’re the most elite force that does things the most efficient and the best, why would we use the tape test?” Smith told me.
But he still faces an uphill battle to success. All the military services use the tape test, and Marine Corps officials said it meets service criteria because it is cheap, easy to use, and relatively accurate. Meanwhile, as the military shrinks, few services are looking for a reason to keep more troops in uniform. Smith’s best hope may be a viral movement of troops who are just as fired up as he is.
Source:
And people want Government involved in Health care, ROFLMAO. This a perfect example of how uncommon common sense is in the Government. As a former Marine and a 7 year DoD Civilian employee nothing coming out of the Government surprises me.
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I don’t know about the USMC, but the USN still uses the tape test. Every 6 months … and believe me, it can’t be accurate. Looking at the corpsman sitting across from me right now, or a dozen other folks I see in my building daily.
Want accurate? Stand 'em naked (fine, underwear) in front of a provider and use the Mk1 eyeball. You look fat? Then you are. Don’t like the doc’s opinion? Ask your CO/OIC.
Come up with a standard say 15% body fat and make everyone even the women meet that standard since they are the same as men.
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Army is still doing it too.
All because it’s cheaper than doing the BMI test, no matter how inaccurate/accurate the differences are.
I’m just waiting for the argument that begins when soldier “X” fails the tape test but then goes across the street and gets the more accurate BMI test done and is actually =/> 5% under. I really feel that A LOT of that is the only thing that’s going to get the standard(or what measures the standard), in AR 600-9, and the other branches to change.
Funny thing is, we can go over there to get it done anytime we(or the soldier) wants, with or without an appointment and it doesn’t cost us anything and that one machine is good enough for the whole base and dependents, yet units don’t want to be able to take their soldiers over there and use it…because they say it’s too expensive:bad:
And of course, we don’t even show/train our people to tape accurately. Granted it isn’t a difficult process but the variance between 3 people taping the same Soldier shows atleast 1-2 inches