Mid-Power Variable for Multi-Role Rifle

Tactical Gear Optics & Mounts
1

Well, this is the optic thread for the rifle project that I am working on. I figured that I may as well splinter the discussion into another thread because optics are a world unto themselves, and lord only knows how far this rabbit hole will take me before I order something. If this is better suited to the Optics sub-forum, please shovel it along to that location.

As stated in my other rifle thread, the goal is 600-800m first shot hits with boring repeat-ability, while keeping things as light as possible without going full retard. The same rifle should be capable on the firing line / bench as well as slung onto my back to be hiked up and over the next ridge line to find the shot. This is not an F-Class rifle. Ideally, the optic will be mil/mil and have an approximately 3/4 - 15/20 range, with 20 being far more than necessary. Given the ranges that I am trying to shoot at, 15x is probably more than enough, and I could probably just get by with an SWFA SS 10x…

The two scopes that I’ve found right now that look really good are the following:

Leupold Mark 4 ERT 6.5-20 x 50mm M5A2 Enhanced Sniper Rifle Scope
NightForce 3.5-15 x 50mm Zero Stop LV.5 Riflescope C393
Swarovski 3.5-18 x 44mm Z5

Very different optics, each one. The Leupold and NightForce weigh in at 30+ oz, and are very much known quantities to me. Great quality, great warranties, etc. They both share a Horus-type christmas tree reticle that I think has its advantages and a large following in the precision / marksman world. The Leupold is priced out at just under $2000, and is the absolute outer reaches of my sanity and budget for this kind of project. Were it not a military contract over-run, this is supposedly a near $4k hunk of glass. The NightForce optics that I am looking at are in their discontinued series, and have a discounted price that puts them within reasonable reach at $1400-1800.

Swarovski’s Z5 is definitely in the sweet spot, weight wise, for this particular project. It fits the minimalist aesthetic of the system that I have in mind, and from what I have read, their optics quality is about as good as it gets, especially for the money. All-in, this is the most budget friendly option at or under $1400. The reticle, however, lacks the detail and extended functionality of the other two. I honestly don’t know enough about what I am trying to accomplish to know if this is going to be a limiting factor for me, or something that I need at all.

With a max budget of $2000, preferably well under, in the 3-15ish range, trying to stay light enough to keep the final rifle under 9 or 10 lb, what else should I be looking at?

2

I have a NXS 3.5-15 with MLR reticle on a mid-weight hunting rifle. It is more than enough to get to 600 meters. Be advised that the LV.5 reticle is part of the Velocity series and is designed for holdovers with various cartridges and various ranges. It isn’t really meant for ranging as are the Horus options, MLR, mildot etc. The rifle is a Cooper 52 and weighs 9 1/4 lbs scopes, slung and loaded.

The Swaro Z5 is a fantastic optic, but I see it being stronger for all-around hunting as opposed to dedicated long range shooting. As you mentioned the reticle choices are limiting and the adjustments are capped as well. There is the ballistic turret option, but this is used more in a BDC role. Mine sits atop my general purpose 300 Weatherby. Using a combination of duplex reticle holds as well as the ballistic turret, this rifle is set up to handle anything from 0-600 meters- all in a 8 1/2 lb package. The rig is light enough for hiking but not so much to be unstable from a good rest.

3

How about either of the newer Bushnell Elite optics:

LRHS or 3-12 or 4.5-18

DMR2 3.5-21
I haven’t seen one myself yet but it’s getting great reviews on snipers hide.

I have the LRHS 3-12 on my SPRish rifle and I’ve been impressed with it. I like the capped windage turret and the zero stop is great. There’s an illuminated version now too.

4

Have you considered the Nightforce ATACR 4-16x42 F1? It’s slightly above your budget, but you might find a used one floating around at the right price. It’s 30 oz, 12.6" long (2" shorter than the NXS 3-15), and the turrets are very low profile. The zerohold elevation turret is wonderful, too. First focal plane with the mil-r reticle works well.

I own one, so I’m biased, but it’s a lot of scope in a fairly compact package. I currently have it on my bergara lrp, but used to use it on an mws out to 900m.

5

A friend of mine has one atop his all-purpose 300 Winchester. Every time I get behind it I think to myself that it is almost a perfect optic, appropriate for almost any type of hunting or long range target rifle. I don’t plan on buying anymore NXS’s- if I need something new of that type, it’ll be an ATACR

6

The ATACR gets my tight in the pants, but it is also a solid grand above what I really want to spend on this particular part of this particular (particularly expensive!) project. I mean, maybe this is the exact moment where I need to just shut up and save for a while. I don’t know.

After giving the project some thought, the Leupold 6.5-20, while sexy AF, is just not fitting the requirements. While this is project is specced at a ‘do-all’ role, I am leaning on more magnification than a traditional bush optic (2-7 / 3-9), while holding shy of a bench rest optic (upwards of 20+).

In the Leupold’s stead, I’ll toss the NightForce SHV 4-14 F1 and the Sig Tango 6 4-16 into the ring. They weigh in at around $1250, and are both right in my magnification sweet spot. Also, a few folks have been bringing up the Bushnell Elite Tactical LRTS 4.5-18x44, which hits $1500. Ideally, this is the price range I’m looking at.

7

I think this. But only b/c I have seen the ATACR second hand for 1700-1800, so it’s closer to your budget than you think.

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8

Where do you live? If you’re in NC near the Raleigh area you can take a look at mine. Even if I didn’t have an appropriate gun to put it on, I’d keep the 4-16x42. I like it that much. :smiley:

9

Mas preesh, bruh. I live in the central gulf coast, so that’s a bit of a drive. What I really need is to find a gallery of guns and optics so that I can finger **** them all until I can show myself what I am willing to live with. That’d be ideal. My department’s SWAT marksmen use Leupold 5-25’s, Mk 8s I think, which are great and all, but too much optic. Can’t seem to find something in the range I am looking for to get my grubby paws on.

RiverofGuns was showing a few ATACRs going for sub-$2000, but they sell within days. I guess I’ll have to (pun definitely intended) wait for one to snipe, and then (doubling down) pull the trigger on it right away.

Off to work.

10

You could always just order one from optics planet and return it.

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11

Another vote for the 4-16 atacr. I have mine on an 18in spr from v7 weapon systems and it’s amazing. Going to grab another one for my sr25 I think.

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12

So, I had posted in the Precision Bolt Gun sub-forum regarding a rifle project, which spawned a thread there regarding optics. But really the best place for that discussion is here. I need optics nerds.

I am trying to build a compromise rifle that will be light enough to be rucked/hiked for a hunt, but has enough glass to be trained on for precision shooting at distances up to 800m. This is not an F-class benchrest shooter. A practical rifle, designed to be light enough to be used in unorthodox shooting positions; something of a bush gun, but with enough glass to take it out farther than the typical 3-9 hunting optic. The current rifle will likely be a Tikka T3X in either .308 or 6.5CM with a 20" barrel.

The optics range that I am looking at is in the 3-4x low end in order to remain usable for close range shots and topping out in the 15-16x range for longer work. The budget is around $2000 or under, but the more I look into this project, the more I am seeing that I will just need to spend more money.

The current contenders in this realm are:

[ul]
[li]Leupold Mark 6 3-18x44 - lightest, most compact, most mediocre[/li][li]Nightforce SHV 4-14x50 - probably the best pound-for-pound price :: performance[/li][li]Nightforce ATACR 4-16x42 - heavier, longer, spendier, but reviewed really extremely highly[/li][li]Sig Tango 6 3-18x44 - seems to offer a lot of features and capability without crushing my budget[/li][li]Bushnell 3-12x44 - a good mix of features, but still somehow weighs more than the Leupold Mk6[/li][li]Steiner T5XI 3-18 - the gen2 turrets apparently fixed the earlier problems, and this is packed with good features and Steiner glass for a wicked good price[/li][/ul]

Elsewhere, I am getting a lot of folks telling me to get the Leupold, as that is their thang. The spec sheet on it fits nicely with the concept for this rifle, but once you start spending $2000+, you are swimming in some very competitive waters. Thus, you have to justify such expenditure against the likes of the NF ATACR. On the lower end of things, how much am I really losing by going with the Sig Tango 6 or Bushnell optics? The Tango 6 appears to do what the Leupold does, in a slightly larger / heavier platform, but for a grand cheaper. The Steiner T5Xi looks like it competes in that same weight class, but has the Steiner name behind it, and if they’ve sorted their proverbial shit out, that seems like a no brainer. Finally, between the NF optics, what am I gaining by dropping an additional grand on the ATACR?

Please forgive my ignorance on this topic. If only I had a magical place where I could get behind each of these on a rifle see how they felt, operated, and looked in varying lighting conditions… But, I don’t live near Fort Bragg / whatever.

What am I missing? Thoughts / suggestions welcome.

My apologies for the duplicate posting, but I think that this is probably where this thread should have been to start. Mods, feel free to delete the other in the Precision Bolt Gun thread.

13

I assume you don’t need illumination, because you didn’t mention it and some of the scopes listed don’t have it. That’s good as it triples your options.

You can use a quality 3-9x at 1000 yards and get good results, as reported by, for example, early testers of the SWFA SS 3-9x. It wouldn’t be my first choice but it can work. Glass quality and precision of adjustments is far more important than magnification. Sometimes I’m amazed at how a higher quality scope is vastly more useful at a given stated magnification than a lower quality scope of the same stated magnification.

I have used the Bushnell LRHS 3-12x44 for F-class shooting at 600 yards, with excellent results. I would have liked more magnification to see the target, but my accuracy was as good as I’ve shot with any other scope, including a Sightron SIII 6-24x50 that is one of the standard recommendations for that type of use. There is also a 4.5-18x44 model of the LRHS if you prefer more magnification. Those are high quality options with all the things you need, closer to $1200 depending on the model and deal you find.

If weight is not an issue, the Bushnell DMR 3.5-21x50 is a great scope, and can be found in the $1100 range. It’s large and heavy though. That’s currently on my F-class setup and has stayed with me after a couple of more expensive scopes have come and gone.

Another possible option is the Leupold Mark 4 4.5-14x50, which is somewhat dated but has your magnification range and great glass. They are discontinued but can still be found, and the scope appears to live on as a “new” VX3i LRP (https://www.leupold.com/product-series/vx-3i-lrp-rifle-scope). (It looks like Leupold replaced their mediocre website with an absolute wreck of unusability, btw.)

The Nightforce SHV 4-14x50 F1 model would worth looking at, but when I checked one out at Cabela’s I was surprised at the short eye relief. It’s also somewhat down-specified compared to the NXS it came from, probably to avoid eating into NXS sales.

I haven’t used the other scopes listed so I’ll avoid repeating hearsay comments on them. I will say that as a horrible serial scope buyer-and-seller I have generally kept my high-end Bushnell scopes more than anything else. I’ve sold Nightforce NXS’s and somewhat regret doing so. I don’t really miss some other brands I’ve sold including Steiner and Leupold Mark 6 scopes, not the specific models you asked about. Not the best guide to what you should buy now among those options, but mentioning it in case it helps. Bushnell does a really good job on their high end scopes, both in absolute quality and usefulness, and in value.

14

I have three Bushnell LRTS’s and they are indeed great optics- especially if you can find them on sale. The glass is not as sharp as Swaro Z5/6 or NF NXS or especially the ATACR, but I wouldn’t expect it to be at that price point (which includes the SHV). Im talking about a very minor difference, here, they are by no means unusable at long range.

Glass (resolution/contrast,etc) and the durability of adjustments are the difference between the SHV and ATACR as far as I can tell.

15

I don’t think you can go wrong with most of your choices, truthfully. But you already know which way I lean. :smiley:

The SHV is the same weight as the ATACR, but 2" longer, has a smaller 30mm tube, and lacks the ATACR turrets. The zerohold elevation turret on the ATACR is awesome, and you can run the windage turret capped or uncapped, since it’s sealed either way and includes a thread protector ring if you decide to run it uncapped. The eye relief on the ATACR is also a bit longer.

The Leupold MK6 takes the cake for weight/length. Every time I use one I am always disappointed with it at 18x, and dial back a bit. I tend to look at the MK6 like the NF 2.5-10x24. It’s a ton of capability in a small, light package, with a little bit lacking at the top end of the magnification range. I also feel like the MK6 is slightly too expensive.

16

Ended up snagging a gently used ATACR 4-16x42 F1 with a Mil-R reticle for just under $2000.

Everywhere that I asked this question, the ATACR came up as the king of the hill, the cream of the crop. After thinking about it for a day or two, I think that I had answered my own question from earlier in the thread: this is in fact a time to just bite down, spend a bit more, save a bit more, and get the optic that I think is the best rather than compromising on what I can afford right now.

I’ll probably look into an SWFA HD 3-9 for use in the hunting role, but that’ll be a ways down the road. This particular NF looks to be the result of several generations of work on the concept of a mid-power variable, with a lot of end-user input from .mil shooters working in conflict zones around the world.

I really appreciate the patience and guidance you all showed me.

17

Said **** it and blew just shy of $2k on a gently used NF ATACR 4-16 F1 with Mil-R reticle. This was one of the shut-up-and-spend-what-it-takes moments. Thanks for the guidance. It was a close call between the NF and either the Steiner/Bushnell/Sig Tango 6, but I figured that if I am spending the kind of money to begin with, might as well go whole hog. In to the hilt, as it were.

Thanks for the help.

18

Good choice. Let us know when you get it if you were satisfied with our advice haha.

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19

Excellent choice.

20

Good job!