I’ve shot several carbine length gas system carbines. Some have 16" barrels while others had 14.5" barrels with extended permanently fixed flash hiders. I think the carbines are fine. I’ve never shot a mid-length before but it seems to me like the 14.5" mid length with extended rail seems to be all the rage these days. I understand that some people believe that the mid-length shoots smoother with a smaller recoil impulse and that the wear and tear on the parts are slightly reduced.
My question is whether there’s really a noticeable advantage in the midlength carbines or not? Or is this just another Vogue trendy thing that every AR collector just has to buy to round out their collection? I don’t want to sound like I’m criticizing people in the gun world, but I see over hyped trends come and go all the time… example: gas piston ARs. Not that gas piston ARs aren’t any good, but it was definitely the “gotta have it” gun at some point and then it came and went. Other trends were like big overkill heavy Surefire lights (M900 series) and red dot magnifiers. Please understand that I’m not bashing those products (they do have their merits in certain circumstances), but I think that their popularity came and went as people realized that they weren’t practical in many applications.
Damn…I’m trying to talk myself out of building a midlength AR…lol
Why would you try and talk your self out of building a midlength AR? There is nothing to lose by building a middy. I could tell a very slight difference between the recoil impulse of my 16in middy and 16in carbine. The midlength gas system is most definately not a fad; in fact it seems it’s quickly becomming the industry standard.
It’s not a belief that the midlength shoots smoother, it’s a fact. When you increase the length of the gas tube (think rifle) the pressures is decreased and the gun isn’t beat up as much.
I don’t think they are a “fad”. They are an evolution of the design. Noveske and others have been making them for more than a couple of years now. The other things you talk about, Surefire M900 and red dots have all evolved as well. Take a look at the newest M900 with LED heads or the M952V.
What Iraqgunz said. Armalite has been building midlengths since sometime in the 1990’s so it’s not a new fad. More companies are adopting the concept every year it seems. The rationale is very simple, and you can feel a difference in shooting them back to back with a 16" M4gery setup.
Remember, the original design was a 20" Rifle length gas system.
I believe the carbine length gas system, light buffer and short receiver extension were all the result of design choices that involved a healthy dose of compromise in order to reach the goal of a short OAL quickly.
Mid length gas systems and the VLTOR A5 buffer system are cases in point.
Some background…
Two competing goals are at work in an autoloader.
waiting as long as possible to start extraction under the lowest chamber pressure and case friction.
(implies a long distance from chamber to gas port )
having enough gas impulse to cycle the action
(implies a relatively fixed amount of distance from gas port to muzzle)
With a long 20" barrel, both goals are easily met.
There is a lot of real estate to go around.
When barrel lengths shrink, everything must be compressed.
Goal #2 always has to be met, in order to have an autoloading weapon.
So, goal #1 is compromised as the barrel length shrinks.
The closer the gas port is to the chamber, the earlier extraction starts, under higher chamber pressure.
In addition, the slope of the pressure curve is steeper.
This means that small variations in velocity and pressure have a bigger effect on the total impulse of gas delivered to cycle the action.
None of this variability helps reliability.
Some good technical information on the DI system can be found [b]here[/b].
I am hoping to get a few things done so that I can eventually try to document the actual difference at the shoulder, but ignoring that issue for a moment…
For me the real attraction to the mid-length is more space to put my hand and attach my sling, more coverage of a hot barrel to keep me from contacting it by mistake, and a slightly longer sight radius. I don’t really care one whit about the pressure/recoil/beatingtheguntodeath alleged benefits.
Various posts on this forum have convinced me that the mid-length is more durable and will take longer before you start having to replace the bolt, the barrel, etc., than the carbine. The question lies in how much more durable in terms of thousands of rounds and I don’t think anyone has narrowed that down definitively.
Being someone who shoots guns with a lot more recoil than any AR to begin with, the difference in recoil impulse between the carbine and middy doesn’t amount to a hill of beans to me.
My opinion is that you should just own a mix of carbines and mid-lengths and you’ll have the bases covered.
lol. I’ve got a middy and want to get a carbine too, and a 20" and a bull barrel. The only annoying thing with the middy is that the company I bought my upper from didn’t have the middy handguards I wanted in stock. I had to buy them from Midway (not the worst thing). I’d say I’d lke the extra couple inches in sight radius, but I stink at iron sites and like optics.
I’m happy with my middy. I’m not ever going to sell this one. Maybe add, someday.
I made it a point to search and read as much as possible about the various weapons before I purchased my AR. What really convinced me to go with the 14.5 Middy was the video comparisons between the various buffers. I had also read a lot on this site about the recoil impulse of the Middy compared to the Carbine lenght system and then the combination of the H2 or H3 buffer and the midlength gas system. The combination sealed the deal. Recoil for this round, as we all know, is basically nothing. However, with this combination there is basically 0 muzzle rise. For me at least the overall length of my Middy is perfect. It just fits. That’s a very subjective description but it’s the best I can do. A 14.5" Midlength setup is so versatile that I can use it for most anything I want.
Just finished putting the final pieces on my bcm 16" lw middy upper. Now I’m just waiting for the paperwork to come back on the lower. Should be ready next friday.
To your original question, the Middys are, as IG stated, an evolution of the AR platform, being a very efficient compromise between carbine and rifle length. I own 3 Mid-lengths: Sabre Defense, LMT MRP and newly arrived DD 14.5 with a light weight barrel and 1.5 Battlecomp. I haven’t shot the DD yet, but the other two I’ve had for a few years now. They defiantly have less perceived recoil than my 2 Colt 6920s. I like both systems, but the Middies get shot more, due to less recoil, more rail for my shooting style (support hand as far forward as possible) and a BattleComp.
I purchased my mid-length for the simple reason that a mid-length rail handguard gives me more flexibility on where I can mount items (VFG, light, etc.) compared to the shorter 7".
I was totally sold on the mid length upper, only one problem, its not mil-spec. Mid length is an industry adaptation, the parts are not government contracted and therefore when armageddon hits, wont be as available as carbine and rifle systems. For this reason alone I went with a LMT 14.5" Carbine upper as my main, and that is backed up with a Stag 16" Carbine upper. I plan to round out with a 10.5" Carbine upper, and maybe even an 18 or 20" rifle. Also, my next complete is going out of spec to a Mega monolithic upper to a Mega billet lower. Maybe on that system I will go for the mid length since its already out of spec, however it would probably be smarter to keep it carbine or rifle for, if nothing else, availability of parts.
Please refute this, as I do like the mid-length system both asthetically and from a real estate point of view.
…because it makes sense to stock up on replacement parts for your AR afterDun dun dun… Armageddon hits us. When you go down to the local FEMA office to get your relief toothbrush, comb and .gov cheese, they’ll also give you a complimentary gas tube for your carbine or rifle (sorry, middy gas tubes do not receive the .gov Seal of Approval) :big_boss:
LMFAO!!!
Like the government is going to handing out spare AR parts to every Tom, Dick, and Harry that wants them. He thinks that he will be killing so many zombies that he is going to need a new gas tube! Running that Stag this is the last thing I would have on my mind if the dead were to walk. Some people have a train of thought that…well you know. Good luck dude.
I do have one big annoyance with the midlength 14.5" as I do with all 14.5" ARs in general. Since you have to get an extended flash hider permanently pinned, your choices in rails are severely limited unless you get one already built up…and I don’t have the tools to do so. Since you can’t take off the FSB once you get the flash hider pinned, you must either get a 2 piece rail that does not require the removal of the FSB for installation or get one already built.
Other than the DD Omega, I would have to get an upper that is already set up with a rail. I think even the Omega X requires removal of the FSB on initial installation. I was really looking to get a BCM 14.5" lightweight or BFH 14.5" with 9.0 DD Lite Rail but they’ve been sold out for quite some time now. I would just buy a BCM upper with permanently pinned FH but then I wouldn’t be able to get the handguards on unless I used a DD Omega. Anyone know of a place that either still builds uppers to your spec or have middys in stock?
