Member Survey: Free-Float Handguards

AR/M4 AR General Discussion
1

Since the other threads seem to be going well, and since my original thread titles “official” got changed to “member survey” I’ll start this one that way.

This is NOT the place for the neo-retro movement and the luddites to post about “who needs free-float rail systems”. The discussion on non-free-float handguards is here.

This thread should be seen as all-inclusive of any free-float handguard systems, from four-rail, top-rail, to no-rail tubes. If it has rails, but isn’t free-float, it goes in the other thread.

Include what you use, what you used before, why you like what you use now, why you didn’t like what you used before, etc. Posts such as “I like the Larue” aren’t worth the time it takes to type them and should be avoided.

ETA:
This comparison chart may prove helpful when looking to verify various claims on weights etc. that are bound to come up here.

ETA2:
If you can, link to the products you’re talking about to help out newbies reading this. Especially those of you that like to toss out abbreviations instead of spelling out brands and models (DD for Daniel Defense, MI for Midwest Industries, etc.).

ETA3:
If you did the install, or removal, comment on that process as well.

“Official” implies that M4C endorses said subject. When it’s only your idea/survey/question/poll, it’s simply that YOURS and not that of M4C.

2

Personally I’ve started shifting my attention to tube-style handguards like the Troy TRX Extreme. I like the fact that they’re really light and I don’t have to use rail covers. In my experience they’re comfortable to grip and I haven’t really had problems with heat. A convenient feature is that if I shoot in the rain or snow here in Washington state I can easily remove the handguard and hit the underlying barrel steel with CLP. Direct mount options seem to be getting more popular and there are even dedicated sling mounts like the excellent Noveske one. I have three TRX Extremes and they’re all top notch in terms of quality and fit and you can’t beat the price. If there’s a downside I haven’t found it. I used to use a DD Omega and a KAC RAS but all that picatinny was wasted; I only needed to mount a sling mount, a light, and a hand stop.

3

I went from a SureFire (non-free float, so I won’t say anything more) to a Troy TRX extreme.

I like it because of the lack of excessive rail space. I can put what I want, where I need it. The weight savings and cost are also nice.

What I don’t like is the cheese grater feel of the holes.

4

I switched over to the Larue Tactical 12.0 with my BCM 16" middy and am loving it. Aesthetics aren’t my first priority with any of my weapons but I’d still like for them to look good. It gave my AR a more streamlined appearance. The machining is excellent and there isn’t a flaw to be seen anywhere.

Aesthetics aside, the rail is rock solid. I’ve used Magpul MOE handguards as well as standard handguards and they always had a little bit of play. The Larue 12.0 doesn’t even flinch when you smack it around. I’m also able to attach my VFG farther forward than I could as the rails extend past the pinned gas block. I’ve used different rail attachments for MOE handguards in the past but none have ever felt as sturdy or as my current setup. The rail is very light and although I’m not sure on the exact numbers, I’m sure that I am getting a lot more rail space for little to no increase in weight. I also like the fact that it has a built in QD socket to readily accept slings.

5

Currently use DD Omega X 12" FSP on my duty rifle.

On other rifles have Troy 7" MRF and DD Omega.

Have used in the past Daniel Defense Lite and M4, Larue 9", Clark carbon fiber tube, and JP tube.

I like the DD Lite/Omega X/RIS platform, because there’s no need to index the barrel nut. I didn’t like the attachment method of the JP. For an inexpensive tube on a competition gun, the Clark was functional.

6

Went from a set of midlength Troy drop in rails to the Troy/VTAC TRX. I like that their light, slim and you can mount rail sections where desired. With a low profile gas block you can easily remove the rail for cleaning and maintenance. Getting ones front sight assy properly aligned is a pain after removal, but using the Aimpoint red dot reticle works pretty good at getting things close.

7

I’ve been Using the DD Lite rails on both carbines and midlengths. My middies have DD 12" rails. I like them, they are light, but rock solid, and about as close as you can get to a MRP. My 1st choice.

8

I have used the Hogue Freefloat tube on my NM clone Bushmaster. Decent grip and I never felt my hand get hot when we were shooting a lot. I probably need to put it back on the gun and tap me a sling stud on the end of it.

I run the DD Lite 12 on my BCM upper and we all know about it.

9

What I’ve used:

DD Omega 7"
Troy TRX-E 13"
VTAC Extreme 11"
Armalite rifle length fiberglass
YHM Lightweight

DD Omega 7" - A good, light quadrail. Upsides: I much prefer the width of these over the plumper models; solid like a rock; has built-in QD in my preferred position; very light. Downsides: you need to preplan adding things to the side rails, some accessories will not mount after installation due to the narrow width.

Troy TRX-E 13" - I’m not currently using mine since I switched to an 11" VTAC-E. Hard to beat these if you don’t need a lot of rail space. Upsides: light, the small diameter is comfortable. Downsides: I’m not totally enamored with the clamp system for retention, but at the same time I haven’t had any problems with it either.

VTAC Extreme 11" - I recently switched over from the 13" Troy to this rail on my 9mm, I prefer the balance of the 11" on this particular carbine. I also think I slightly prefer the hand feel of the VTAC slots over the Troy holes. Upsides: same as above for the TRX-E. Downsides: same as above for the TRX-E.

Armalite rifle length fiberglass - now here’s a dinosaur for you! I bought this used back in 1997 or so for a build that never happened, at that time there wasn’t a big selection of non-metallic tube freefloats available. I finally put it to use last year on a 20" bipod build that I did to clear out my spare parts drawer. Upsides: solid, heavy (in this use I consider it a plus.) Downsides: no provision for front sight mounting.

YHM Spectre length Lightweight - Ugh. I had this on my 9mm upper when I first built it back in '04 or so - forgive me, I didn’t know any better. Fat, fat, fat. Out of spec rails. I didn’t care at all for their jam nut mounting system. A piece of crap IMO, happily long gone.

10

I have owned/used:
[ul]
[li]Larue Tactical - 12.0 length[/li][li]Daniel Defense M4 - 9.0, 10.0, and 11.0 (I think that’s right)[/li][li]Troy TRX Extreme - 9.0 and 13.0[/li][li]Troy VTAC Extreme - 9.0 and 11.0[/li][li]Centurion Arms - 7.0 and 9.0[/li][li]Apex Machining - 12.0 (branded as Blackheart International)[/li][li]YHM - don’t recall length or model[/li]Wholly unimpressed on almost every level. Fat, poor mounting system, sharp edges, heavier than it should be, etc.
[li]Spike’s Tactical BAR - 7.0 length[/li]Fatter than I’d like, and hard to judge on short lengths like this. I’d like an opportunity to try their SAR as I think it may be better suited, and more what I’m familiar with.
[/ul]

I have handled/installed:
[ul]
[li]Daniel Defense Lite - unsure of length[/li][li]Daniel Defense Omega - don’t recall length, probably 7.0[/li][li]JP VTAC - base rail with FSP Extension[/li]I found it to have an odd mounting system, a finish I wasn’t crazy about, to be heavier than it needed to, etc. But I also think it’s just an outdated system given the current market. Interesting to note that they were doing slick-side rail-where-you-want-it tubes way before the current craze though.
[/ul]

I’ll have to come back and update this post with general impressions of more of these.

ETA:
I also have an AAC T&E 300 BLK upper with some kind of KAC URX rail on it, and I have a KAC Lunchbox rail that’s a LW URX or something (not fully familiar with the KAC product line), and I’ve spent 1k+ rounds on a KAC SR15E3 pre-production that also had some kind of URX on it. I’m really fond of the Lunchbox rail and am trying to figure out what I’m going to do with it and the Lunchbox upper and lower, but they’ll all go together. The rail on the 300 is just too short for me. I put a handstop on the end to hook my finger on and keep my hand from slipping off the front. I will say that in general the URX are lighter than many would assume, but the lack of tool readily, and inexpensively, available to remove/install bothers me.

11

My First two set’s of rails were non-free float. I’ve only used one type of FF rail:

Daniel Defense Omega Rail 7.0 - I found one on the EE at another AR-15 forums for a good price with a Tango Down stubby FG included.

I moved away from “fat” feeling rails to go with what fit my hand. I went with a “free float” for better feeling and a chance for a little better accuracy.

Also in the mix was sling attachment and installation: When I was looking for my last rail it needed to be installed without taking the upper appart and needed to have a quick release socket.

.

12

PRI Gen III Delta Carbon Fiber Forearm. They are lightweight, stiff and the profile feels good in my hand. It’s also carbon fiber instead of aluminum and should protect the hands form heat better. I didn’t require or want a lot of rail estate and like being able to add or remove rails as needed. Currently, all the rails are removed, including the top rail as it’s installed on a precision rifle. I also like the clean lines, smooth sides yet positive grip the forearm offers. It feels like I can control the rifle better compared to a fat, round profile.

I don’t like the two plastic tits used to align the forearm to the barrel nut. I’m a bit worried that they’ll prove to be fragile and will at some point, break off. However, I’m sure if I keep the forearm nut tight this shouldn’t be a problem. Another dislike is cost. Out the door, it absorbed 4 Benjamins and barely gave back enough change to take the wife to lunch. Lastly, it’s annoying that it needs a special $12 wrench to tighten the forearm nut that wasn’t included with the forearm.

Overall, I’m satisfied with the PRI Delta forearm, but I’ve only had it a short time and haven’t had a chance to put it, or the rifle it’s mounted to, through their paces

13

My MI free-float has been great for duty purposes

14

Right now I am using a KAC FF Carbine RAS, a DD MK18 RIS2, and a KAC URX rifle-length FF.

Knight’s Armament Company Free Float Carbine RAS: What I like most of all is that it feels rock solid and indestructable. I got it used from a friend who had it for 3 tours in Iraq. Even after getting banged around by him and me, it still is holding up like it is new. Any nicks in the rails don’t effect zero and I have yet to see any shift in zero with use or wear. If I add what the original owner thinks he has shot with it and what I have shot with it, the round count is somewhere around 40K. The only thing I don’t like about it is that the replacement parts (barrel nuts, etc.) are expensive ($100+ each). I ran into this when I originally got it and my friend’s unit armorer used a chisel to remove the FF nut and barrel nut. I can understand this because KAC doesn’t do massive volume with these things, so the spare parts can’t be that cheap.

Daniel Defense MK18 RIS2: What I like most is that it is very rigid and provides a lightweight continuous top rail surface. While this isn’t too important with an M4 or CAR15, it is with a SBR as rigidity “feels” better since there’s less barrel weight to compensate for recoil. I haven’t had it and the KAC FF RAS both apart at the same time, so I haven’t had a chance to weigh them to compare. I also like having a longer sight radius (a few inches) on a short barrel. I can’t comment on installation, parts, etc. since this was factory installed when I bought the DD MK18 Mod 1 upper, and I have not had any need to disassemble it. I can’t say that I have any dislikes. DD did their homework.

Knight’s Armament Company URX Rifle Length Free Float: This is fitted on a “SPR” type upper with an rifle length gas system. It is solid and very sturdy. My comments are limited because I haven’t shot this upper that much as I am waiting on an optic. (Waiting on squirling away enough in money my wife doesn’t know about for an optic to be more specific) The only negative was the installation. No one had the KAC special wrench locally, so I had to send it out to get it installed, which I do not like. While I understand KAC’s reasoning for it, I would rather pay a little more and have it come with a wrench. KAC could have the wrench made by a tool company for significantly less than what it costs them to do it in-house. If I was to do it again, I would buy a MK12 upper from Monty (Centurion Arms) and specify the URX as an option and have him do the build. I would have saved around $450 in parts and shipping, which buys 1/3 of a decent scope. Who knows, I may still do this.

I have also owned a VLTOR CASV, which was a nicely made rail, but a little heavy. It was on an M4 clone I had in California that had a pinned flash-hider. I ended up selling it to a freind fo my brother. What I liked about it was the quality. VLTOR makes great quality stuff. What I didn’t like was the weight, the length of the top rail as it provided very few choices for BUIS, and the extra height. The extra height made it hard to get an Aimpoint to lower 1/3 co-witness ( I couldn’t find a mount while I owned it) and made an EOTECH 512 the best option. While that is fine (I like EOTECHs), I would have liked more options.

I have shot a Midwest Industries Two-piece FF which belongs to my neighbor. He bought it because it was cheap. I can see that you get what you pay for. It is overweight, large, and has (to my eyes at least) non-standard rails (I haven’t miked them). It also has a habit of loosening with the clamping screws and has been tightened so many times that the threads have stripped. I don’t know if the original install was the probelm (over torque) or the material is too soft, but I would stay away from this. POS in my opinion.

15

I used LaRue rails on both of my carbines, and really liked them, being that they were very durable, robust, and incredibly solid. The rails were low-profile enough that you could still get an adequate grip, but it wasn’t thin enough to wrap my hand around, which is what I prefer.

For my next build, I went with something more lightweight in the VTAC Troy rail system, resulting in a rail that I much prefer over the LaRue. It’s lighter, it’s slick, so I can get my hand around it, and its very thin, which lends itself to being easy to handle and less bulky than quad-rail designs.

16

I installed a DD Omega 7.0 on my DDXV carbine. It was a really easy install and the rail is great. I replaced it with a DD Lite 12.0 FSP. The extra rail estate is ok (only have a light and AFG) but the extra length makes the rifle easier to handle. The Omega has the QD swivel attachment but I have a Troy rail attached QD swivel attachment.

17

DD Omega 9.0 on my BCM mid length.

18

I have a set of DD free float rails on my gun. I have no clue which set they are though. I have a ton of space for the rails but dont really put much on them aside from covers and a tango down stubby grip since I just shoot targets at the range. I mainly wanted them for better accuracy.

19

I started with the DD Omega 9.0 on my standard BCM 16" middy. It is a very nicely made rail, and for those looking for a free float that required NO MODIFICATION AT ALL, it is a good choice. It is also a fairly “thin” rail, so those with smaller hands might really like it.

I recently switched the omega 9.0 out for a Centurion Arms C4 9" rail. Install is also easy, but you do have to cut off the delta ring and spring, along with the front handgaurd cap. It is really not hard, and well worth it to get the Centurion rail on. The mounting system of the Centurion is far superior in my estimation to the mounting system of the DD Omega 9.0. I really do beleive is is far more robust, and it has anti rotation tabs that index on the reciever. There is very little if any rail flex, compared to the fact that I could flex the DD Omega 9.0 by hand.

I have also run the DD 12.0 lite rail, and the KAC URX rifle length rail. they were both great rail systems, but I decided to revert back to a traditional FSB, and sold off both uppers with those rails.

20

I have experience with the following rails:

Daniel Defense Omega 7". I purchased it to install on an upper with a carry handle in case I wanted to use an optic. Installation was simple, the rail is nicely made and still resides on the rifle. No major issues with it.

Knight’s Free Float RAS. This came with a used upper I bought during the craze. It feels quality, however, it’s a little heavier than modern rails and lacks a built in QD socket, necessitating the purchase of one.

Daniel Defense Omega FSP. Once again this rail came installed on a DD upper I bought. I like the ability to mount a flashlight at the 12 o’clock position and have enough space to stretch out with my support hand. However, it feels a little heavy.

Troy VTAC TRX Extreme. This is the lightest rail I have used. I like its lightweight and shape. However, I had issues with getting the rail properly aligned. Despite using an ADM mount to bridge the upper receiver and the rail, I ended up having to rotate the rail by hand while zeroing my BUIS. It also lacks an integral QD slot. For some reason the QD slot is on the longest piece of rail, which has a slight chance to interfere with grip. Otherwise it’s a good rail. Installation was a breeze: Remove old barrel, replace old bbl nut with TRX and install the rail using a bridging device.
Another drawback with TRX is that gets hot after 2-3 magazines fired in semi rapid succession, requiring gloves. This became apparent in a three day rifle class I took last summer.

Larue 11". It came on another upper I purchased. Gets the job done and had a QD slot. No major issues.

VLTOR CASV-MT: I purchased it sometime ago because I like its looks and wanted to try it out for myself. I like the rail’s quality and the fact that it’s a free float rail that is installed without any modification. The downsides:
Without rail covers, it got hot just like TRX. Also, it’s rather wide, making a VFG-less grip less than optimal. It is also heavy, coming in at about a pound and requires the use of low mounts for Aimpoint to obtain a cowitness. I thin it’s a nice design and a quality rail that’s past its prime.

Regarding rail covers: I went ladder covers only for a short period of time. However, I noticed that during pro longed strings of fire, the rails got too hot. As such, I switched to using either Magpul XT or XTM covers around grip areas since they are thicker and provide more protection. I also had KAC covers, which I think are obsolete by know. The tend to rattle, and don’t work properly on all rails.