Mebbe time to say farewell to AK rifles..?

General Firearms Other Semi-Automatic Rifles
1

Been thinking about this for a year or two, but it’s hard to let go. After owning several AK-type rifles over the last couple decades I’m down to my last one: a preban Chinese underfolder I bought new.

Fell in love with AKs when I saw my first Steyr Maadi in the local sporting goods store - something brand new to the US when I saw it. I was young, then.

Not quite an old man yet but no longer young. Eyesight has slowly changed with the passing of the years and AK-type sights don’t work so well for me. I do better with ARs, Garands, No. 4 Enfields, and similar rifle sight set-ups.

Last outing with the AK I was getting 4-6” groups at 50 yards using Lapua 123 gr FMJ. Though admittedly underfolders wander a bit, the results aren’t very encouraging. :frowning:

Tonight was reading an essay by Larry Vickers in which he states that a self-defense carbine using quality ammunition should be able to make a headshot at 100 yards - something I seriously doubt I can do with my underfolder.

I’m left wondering if maybe it isn’t time to say farewell to the AK, since time and age have made it tougher for me to use effectively. TBH I was never that great with any AK anyway, and getting an entire mag on a man-sized silhouette at 100 yards was my (poor man’s) standard for “success.”

Much has changed since the 1980’s, especially in the realm of optics. Selling my ChiCom to a collector would free up $ for high quality optics to go on my AR, which would help an oldster like me maintain readiness in a manner I could little dream of 20 years ago. Money isn’t so tight that I have to, but it would be logical way to keep my firearms interest, funding itself.

So, my question: is there much point in keeping my AK as a defensive rifle? Or has it simply become a luxury item - fun to have & shoot, but no longer practical for a near-sighted oldster, like me?

My thanks in advance for your perspective(s)…

2

While I don’t know what kind of accuracy you used to get with the rifle, maybe consider mounting a red dot? If you like the rifle it might be worth doing just to have as a fun gun or set up an AR for the roll.

3

Sometimes it’s time to move on. Nothing wrong with that.

4

The suggestion of going to a red dot is a good one, and there are some great mounts available for mounting a red dot on an AK these days.

Another option if you want to add a peep style rear sight would be the rear sight system made by Tech Sights. The system replaces the recoil spring guide rod and the dust cover, adding an M16 A1 style rear sight, and from the reviews I’ve seen is solid (though I haven’t played with one myself). There is also an option to add elevation adjustment.

https://www.tech-sights.com/ak-products/

But it does sound like it might just be time for a change, especially if you’ve shot the gun as well as you’d like. You should be able to get a good price for that Chinese AK in today’s market, certainly enough to set you up with a quality AR.

5

I would say now is the time to consolidate your collection across the board.

6

This is the reason why you’re thinking of giving them up? Has it ever occurred to you to question that?

I sure as hell do. Ask yourself this: when would you EVER be justified in shooting someone, anywhere in their body, at 100 yards in self defense?

Is my AR capable of doing what Vickers says is the bare minimum? Yes it is. Would I shitcan it if it couldn’t? Hell no.

7

Ultimak and a red dot.

It’s a combination that works.

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8

I don’t think Vickers was remotely touching the ‘justified’ portion of a headshot at 100 yards, just the accuracy requirement.

Think about a headshot at 100 yards. That’s 6+ MOA to do that. Any respectable rifle and ammo should be able to do that.

If it can’t, either the shooter / sight / scope combo sucks balls, or the rifles accuracy sucks balls.

Either is unacceptable.

My son and I were using a Colt LE6920 Trooper with H-2 zeroed for 100 yards on a 5" steel plate last weekend, shooting bulk Federal AE 55gr 223 and some M193. He and I rang it with boring repetition and the occasional miss was due to picking up the pace and shooting it fast / while still moving.

9

Well if you don’t as much enjoy shooting it anymore, and you don’t have best results shooting it, I don’t think it is wrong to get rid of it unless you have a strong sentimental attachment.

I was also in the same boat when it came to a para FAL that I owned. It was reliable, soft shooting, and I thought it was “cool.” But it was really only a 2-3 MOA rifle on average, it destroyed brass (I am an avid reloader), the optics mounting solutions were only OK, the trigger was horrid, and it just didn’t hold a candle at long range compared to my AR’s. I ended up selling it.

My vision is also not the best and I have come to prefer low-power variables on my rifles… Even a 4-6x scope, if of good quality, greatly expands the capability of a carbine. I have made hits on 1.5 MOA steel out to 900 yds with my AR using a 4x scope, and 600 yds is down right boring with good 75 grain loads. No way my prior FAL could touch this.

10

Yeah now that you put a number to it I get what I think he was saying.

11

I would keep at least one AK as a point of reference. If you really need the money so be it, but preban Chinese AKs are never coming back to the US market unless I become dictator.

12

I would concur with the general consensus: Add an Ultimak and a Micro. See how you do, then.

Larry Vickers’s justification is based on the potential need for a carbine to be needed to take a headshot on someone with a hostage (or a similar Pressburg-esque no-fail-type shoot) at 50-100 yards. He has similar accuracy requirements for a hard use pistol at 25 yards for the same reason.

13

I understand that shooting an AK with irons isn’t all that fun for someone with poor vision. That being said, the AK market has some really good options for mounting quality optics and lights to make a very good AR alternative as a “fighting rifle”. Having said that, I don’t know if I would do that to a classic Type 3 or collectable AK. Nor would I do it to a Garand or any other mint, iconic, pristine collector example rifle.

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14

As a defensive rifle, underfolder AKs suck. But since you already have a AR rifle, you might want to turn your expensive collectible into a Bulgarian SLR which can be made into a reasonable defensive carbine and still have money for optics for your AR.

15

And that’s fine considering his experience and some of his audience/clientele.

The problem begins when the average joe blow that takes his class or reads his opinions immediately latches onto them without critical thought.

The scenarios that you describe are so far fetched for a non-police, non-military person that they may as well be fantasy.

16

The multiplicity of views and opinions presented here are all very gratefully appreciated.

Thank you, Gentlemen, for taking time out of your busy day to present the thoughtful replies that you have, here - the benefit of your many perspectives is tremendous.

17

Bulgarians are hot OP… I’ve been thinking about putting a red dot on my SLR-95 as it sucks with irons at my age.

18

Not really, but OK.

19

Read this and it might make more sense:
www.vickerstactical.com/accuracy.html

I have an SLR106U with an ultimak and red dot. Was actually going to hit the range this weekend with it and some blackhills, ran out of time. Curious how it will do at 100.

20

Heres the thing, your vision deteriorates as you get older with almost little notice. It happens (as you know), period !!! And it sucks too!!! The answer is any halfway decent optic will improve your hits with any rifle, no doubts about that. For me optics are the way to go on 90% of my long guns, as others pointed out, they make hitting a target easy for aging eyes. All that being said, a Norinco AK under folder would not be my first choice for defensive use of an AK. Range gun, yes reference piece, 100% and as valuable investment, well, that depends what the gun market will bear at the time of sale! Me, I’d keep it stock, safe queen it, go shop at Kvar for one of there AK models, buy it, pick a quality made mount & optic (that you’ve tried and like)and use that in that drill /exercise you had mentioned… more than likely you’d be pleasantly surprised! Any decent AK can group and hit distant targets quite well once you put an optic on them! And again you’ll be thrilled at how easy it is to get the results you want! Good luck!