Anybody have any idea where I can get a match grade hammer forged 223 Remington barrel with an 8 or quicker twist?
I checked with Ruger and all they make is 9 twists.
The point of this is that I would like to buy the most durable barrel possible that is suitably accurate for NRA Highpower competition. Yeah, I know a cut-rifled Krieger will last longer than a button rifled barrel, but I don’t think Kriegers are worth the money when I can get a buttoned barrel that will last for 3,000 rounds for about $200 and a Krieger or similar is going to run $500+ and maybe last 5,000 rounds. I’d really like something that will get 10,000+ accurate rounds if I’m going to part with that kind of coin.
I did not notice that you wanted a 20". My bad, should have clicked when you said you wanted it for high power. I am not sure of any others, maybe bravo company.
Nobody makes a “Match grade” 20-inch hammer forged barrel. Saberco sells as close as you can get to a readily-available GI hammer-forged.
Ruger sold a pair of their hammer-forged .223 blanks to a guy who chambered two rifles for a Precision Shooting article which he successfully turned into two sub-MOA guns.
Hammer forging really supports mass-production. They exhibit good long-term wear characteristics but are not going to beat a Krieger for accuracy.
Many new National Match Course shooters shoot out their original barrels and once they wear out the first tube they’ve got a firm hand on the basics and can exploit the accuracy potential of a Krieger or other premium barrel.
I only know one guy who makes a 17-4 Precipitate Hardened (aircraft landing gear grade) stainless barrel, and for all intents and purposes nobody makes a 10,000 round National Match Course barrel. Once you drop X’s, your rapid fire groups start getting bigger, and you start getting shots off-call that barrel’s toast. You can get to 10,000 if you’re shooting 200 yards and closer.
A nitrided Superior Barrels 20-incher (they call their treatment “Hard Blue”) is one of your better options between a quality hammer-forged MILSPEC barrel and a premium cut-rifled barrel. Hard Blue nitriding is VERY hard and will help extend the life of your barrel as you learn to shoot well and last a very long time. Starting with a very good Lothar Walther USA blank they are about midway in price between both ends as well. This is their Designated Marksman barrel (I’m not sure whether or not the CLE indicates the barrel was turned by Frank White at Compass Lake Engineering or if they used his chamber reamer):
For NRA hi power you are going to want a heavier barrel for the weight alone then what I offer. A heavy rifle is more stable and easier to shoot even if a lighter one will hold the same accuracy.
For what you want the nitrided barrels will be your best option and I’m VERY confident will get you over the 10,000 round count you want. If your going to use this process try to start with a 4140 barrel as when you are done it will yield the best results.
If you can find one, the 20” Noveske stainless steel barrel would probably meet your needs. This barrel has an HBAR profile, polygonal rifling, a 1:7” twist and the Noveske Match mod 0 chamber.
Using hand-loaded Sierra 55 grain BlitzKings, this barrel turned in a 10-shot group with an extreme spread of 0.726" from the bench-rest at 100 yards. That’s not too shabby for a semi-automatic AR-15 with a barrel that has a chamber that “was developed to fire MK262 Mod 1 on AUTO in hot environments." For the Internet Commandos in our viewing audience, I also fired a 3-shot group at 100 yards. It had an extreme spread of 0.175”.
Molon, that is a barrel I would love to try. But I contacted Noveske and they said they aren’t doing any 20" barrels.
Sinister, that may be an option. Do you think I’d see any advantage to using a cut-rifled barrel rather than a button rifled barrel in conjunction with the nitriding? I know those Walthers are good for about 4,000 rounds (I just burnt one of those up last year) without any treatment. That’s pretty close to a Krieger.
What kind of life do you think one would get out of a nitrided barrel?
I’d be willing to trade a few tenths of a MOA in group size to get something that lasted significantly longer. Right now, I’m burning about 3-4,000 rounds per year which means I have to change barrels every year and figure out new dopes and loads. I’d like to increase that volume to 8,000 rounds per year and get more than one season out of a barrel.
I read in a published interview that Mr. Noveske said his barrels have a sweet spot for accuracy at 16". In other words, he gets the best accuracy at 16" and results drop off if he goes longer or shorter. So if you are looking for accuracy not velocity, just get a Noveske stainless 16" barrel.
HelloLarry I think if you had ANY really good quality barrel and sodium nitride surface harden it you’re going to be ahead of the game as far as longevity.
The start barrel quality is key – a premium full-Monty cut (Krieger, Obermyer, Satern, e.i.e.i.o) surface-hardened inside and out will allow you to possibly shoot two complete seasons on the same data on one barrel. I seem to change cut barrels around 3,000 - 3,500 rounds as my 300 groups get gnarly and I start dropping Xs and getting uncalled 9s at 600. Once you get 8s or worse off-call the tube’s long gone.
Superior Barrels seem to show remarkable resistance to heat cracking at the throats.
I think it is a good treatment and better than patent medicine snake oil but you’ll have to decide if it’s worth it to send them a cut barrel or get one of their Walthers.
It wasn’t too long ago that Superior offered that 20" SDMR barrel for $336 including the bolt. I’m going to have a 200-yard throwdown between it and my 18" BCM stainless pretty soon. The Superior barrel is also balanced and points very well…surprisingly light.
Superior will get you a complete, done barrel. TruTec can do yours – but make sure the chamber works for YOUR loads first – they can’t be re-cut later.
