Marine Vet Detained for Facebook Posts- WTF?

General General Discussion
21

For sure. Especially after situations like this Vets that could already be paranoid start to fear the worst that the thought police will commit them.

There’s no doubt a significant number of vets are needing mental help. I just heard on the radio a few days ago but haven’t verified the stats that there’s a major issue with suicide among Vets. If that’s true, we are either failing them or they have a mindset that nothing will change their feelings no matter how hard someone tries. To top it off, people with depression and suicidal issues tend to hide it very well or they act so fast it’s too late.

However, expressing thoughts of depression are different than overt threats of physical harm. People are freaking out such as the guy in the blog above that “pre- crime” and just posting some thoughts on Facebook gets you jail time. Postings are no different than spoken words. People have a hard time understanding that. There is no litmus test to determine that postings are more or less harmless than words.

If done by the book as it appears I have absolutely no problem hauling his ass in. Then the problem becomes how long should he be committed and is he ever really ‘cured’ or no longer a threat. Is he good enough to convince them he’s fine and be released just to go nuts?

His lawyers will turn a scratch into a gash and damn near bleeding to death. While it is touchy as in the police playing it by the book, I have no doubt they made the right call and shouldn’t be second guessed unless a rogue element is exposed which I strongly doubt.

22

I think a bit of the problem is not finding a counselor that a soldier/vet can connect with. That whole thing of “you weren’t there; you haven’t seen what I have,” is something I have noticed that others don’t. I would love to help our vets push past this, but I wasn’t there. I fact, I would probably be the wrong person to talk with. because Uncle Sam threw a war I wasn’t invited to and I would go in a heart beat of called upon. Thus, it really makes me the wrong person to talk to.

There are programs out there that put troopers out at ranches to “reconnect” with things they love and help them push past the horrors of combat.

Some how this Marine got alienated through fears and he quit, thus preventing him in some way (either actually, or in his mind) to talk to someone. My fear is: how many others are out there like him.

23

By the time the psych ward gets done pumping him with “drool” drugs no one will ever know what his true state of mind is. 30 days might as well be life.

I have a hard time with the idea if committing him solely based on his posts. Behavior should be the over riding factor. Had he exhibited ANY behavior other than posts/speech that indicated violence?

How many terrorists such as Black Panthers spew much worse threats and are never taken in for psych eval. I hope he manages to get out and the sue the crap out of the city, PD and shrink for kidnapping and false imprisonment since he never acted on or toward any supposed threats.

24

By the time words come to fruition it’s usually too late. Had you rather him snap and beat or kill somebody before anything is done? The letter the Aurora shooter wrote to his shrink was just words, right?

Black Panthers saying they’re going to kill a bunch of crackers is different than threatening generals at a nearby base. Threaten government officials with axe murder and see what happens.

Psych wards aren’t normally the drooling drug straight jacket padded rooms you see in the movies.

25

Well, in all fairness, I really don’t see a difference in potential distance between the “nearby” generals or the BP’s threats against people that could be anywhere- same thing.

I understand the point about the Aurora thing, but at the same time, if you apply that reasoning to everyone that says anything that could be construed to make them seem to have even the slightest possibility of violent actions, than they’d have to start hauling in half the country. I mean, quite a few folks here post enough to expect a house call any day now by those standards, let alone some of the bloggers out there posting WAY more inflammatory things than even the guy in the story, yet they’re not being hustled off to a psych evaluation…
That was kind of my point originally.
Over that past year with stories like these that have come around, I’m not getting a vibe of well-reasoned preventative measures to get the vets whatever help they need, I’m getting a vibe of irrational paranoia. Kind of like the way vietnam vets were/are always portrayed as craaaaaazy.

26

Fuck Facebook.

You want to keep in touch with friends and family? Get emails and phone #s.

You want to reach new people with your views and commentary? Start a blog or a YouTube channel or join a forum.

You’re a complete narcissist who needs to tell people where you are at all times and what mundane errand you’re on? Get twitter.

Facebook serves no purpose other than to compile info about you to help marketing and police.

27

Well said. The thought of us being “terrified” is just silly…

For LE, it has been and will be damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

28

[QUOTE=Littlelebowski;1374128]He did not commit a crime.

He may have. All info is never released to the media. There is likely more. Though what I read in the articles are typical “black helicopter-ish”, and not directly threatening, direct threats may have been discovered by other means and sources

Third party reports of threatening and dangerouse acts via electronic means that cross state lines IS a federal offense.

29

Interesting interview from the committed…

Law enforcement officials said they did not arrest Brandon Raub for his anti-governmentFacebook postings, even though they slapped handcuffs on him and forced him into a car before transporting him to a psychiatric hospital where he will remain for at least 30 days.

No, they merely went to “interview him” last Thursday, the FBI told the*Richmond Times-Dispatch.

“Our office had received a complaint about threatening posts,” said Dee Rybiski, spokeswoman for the Richmond FBI office. “As we would do in any circumstance such as this, our office along with Chesterfield Police (Department) officers went to interview Mr. Raub.

“The FBI did not arrest him,” Rybiski said. “We are not commenting any further.

Meanwhile, Raub is locked away in a psychiatric ward in John Randolph Medical Center outside Richmond, Virginia where he was allowed to be interviewed by the Richmond Times-Dispatch via telephone.

“I’m currently in John Randolph in the psychiatric ward being held against my will,” Raub said in a telephone interview.

Raub said Secret Service, FBI and Chesterfield police officers came to his home Thursday. “They were concerned about me calling for the arrest of government officials,” he said.

He was taken to the Chesterfield police station and then to the hospital, he said.

“I talked to a Secret Service gentleman for 20, 30 minutes,” Raub said. “I was very cooperative and answered everything honestly.

“I really love America, and I think that idea that you can be detained and sent somewhere without due process and a lawyer … is crazy.”

Raub said he has been raising questions about 9/11 and signed a petition to reopen investigation of the terrorist attacks.

The Rutherford Institute, a Virginia-based civil rights organization, has come to the defense of Raub, a retired U.S. Marine who served from 2005 to 2011, including stints in Iraq and Afghanistan.

According to a statement the Rutherford Institute sent to*Cop Block:

The Rutherford Institute has come to the defense of a former Marine, 26-year-old Brandon Raub, who was arrested, detained indefinitely in a psych ward and forced to undergo psychological evaluations based solely on the controversial nature of lines from song lyrics, political messages and virtual card games which he posted to his private Facebook page. Although the FBI and Chesterfield County police have not charged Brandon Raub, a resident of Chesterfield County, Va., with committing any crime, they arrested Raub on Thursday, August 16, 2012, and transported him to John Randolph Medical Center, where he was held against his will due to alleged concerns that his Facebook (FB) posts were controversial and terrorist in nature. In a hearing held at the hospital, government officials disregarded Raub’s explanation that the Facebook posts were being interpreted out of context, sentencing him up to 30 days further confinement in a VA psych ward. In coming to Raub’s defense, Rutherford Institute attorneys are challenging Raub’s arrest and forcible detention, as well as the government’s overt Facebook surveillance and violation of Raub’s First Amendment rights.

30

NYPD cop Adrian Schoolcraft might have a thing or two to say about involuntary commitments.

31

http://www.nbc12.com/story/19324653/marine-detained-for-facebook-posts

@LL, I think that quote you have above meant to say “up to 30 days” not “at least 30 days”.

Not that that makes a lot of difference in the grand scheme…

Maybe everything that’s happening is wrong. Maybe it’s all a big mistake. Maybe he is now owed. … or Maybe someone is actually saving a persons life while it actually can be saved.

32

Interesting indeed.

Law enforcement officials said they did not arrest Brandon Raub for his anti-governmentFacebook postings, even though they slapped handcuffs on him and forced him into a car before transporting him to a psychiatric hospital where he will remain for at least 30 days.

No, they merely went to “interview him” last Thursday, the FBI told the*Richmond Times-Dispatch.

“Our office had received a complaint about threatening posts,” said Dee Rybiski, spokeswoman for the Richmond FBI office. “As we would do in any circumstance such as this, our office along with Chesterfield Police (Department) officers went to interview Mr. Raub.

“The FBI did not arrest him,” Rybiski said. “We are not commenting any further.

Meanwhile, Raub is locked away in a psychiatric ward in John Randolph Medical Center outside Richmond, Virginia where he was allowed to be interviewed by the Richmond Times-Dispatch via telephone.

“I’m currently in John Randolph in the psychiatric ward being held against my will,” Raub said in a telephone interview.

Raub said Secret Service, FBI and Chesterfield police officers came to his home Thursday. “They were concerned about me calling for the arrest of government officials,”he said.

Umm…I think it was a little more than that.
The 1st step to recovery is admitting what ya did. If you did nothing wrong and are proud of it then why try to downplay it?

He was taken to the Chesterfield police station and then to the hospital, he said.

“I talked to a Secret Service gentleman for 20, 30 minutes,” Raub said. “I was very cooperative and answered everything honestly.

“I really love America, and I think that idea that you can be detained and sent somewhere without due process and a lawyer … is crazy.”

Raub said he has been raising questions about 9/11 and signed a petition to reopen investigation of the terrorist attacks.

The Rutherford Institute, a Virginia-based civil rights organization, has come to the defense of Raub, a retired U.S. Marine who served from 2005 to 2011, including stints in Iraq and Afghanistan.

According to a statement the Rutherford Institute sent to*Cop Block:

The Rutherford Institute has come to the defense of a former Marine, 26-year-old Brandon Raub, who was arrested, detained indefinitely in a psych ward and forced to undergo psychological evaluations based solely on the controversial nature of lines from song lyrics, political messages and virtual card games which he posted to his private Facebook page. Although the FBI and Chesterfield County police have not charged Brandon Raub, a resident of Chesterfield County, Va., with committing any crime, they arrested Raub on Thursday, August 16, 2012, and transported him to John Randolph Medical Center, where he was held against his will due to alleged concerns that his Facebook (FB) posts were controversial and terrorist in nature. In a hearing held at the hospital, government officials disregarded Raub’s explanation that the Facebook posts were being interpreted out of context, sentencing him up to 30 days further confinement in a VA psych ward. In coming to Raub’s defense, Rutherford Institute attorneys are challenging Raub’s arrest and forcible detention, as well as the government’s overt Facebook surveillance and violation of Raub’s First Amendment rights.

Apparently they’re confused about how Facebook technology actually works because anyone can view his rants. His page reads like a paranoid schizophrenic’s diary.

This life can be free and beautiful. There are enough resources on this earth to support the world’s population. There are enough resources on this earth to feed everyone. There is enough land for everyone to own their own land and farm, and produce their own energy.

These people have been hiding technology. There are ways to create power easily. There is technology that can provide free cheap power for everyone. There are farming techniques that can feed the entire world.

They want to put computer chips in you.

33

Most of us are guilty of flying off the handle once in a while and making statements which, if taken entirely out of context, might be construed as alarming and/or potentially threatening.

But this young man repeatedly posted comments to a public website which demonstrated a pattern of escalating frustration, alienation, and, ultimately, rage towards the government and the military. Coupled with references to violent acts and imminent action, I think the authorities were justified in giving this guy a closer look.

I can’t speak to the manner in which he was detained, as I’m not privy to all the facts and was not present when he had his initial interaction with law enforcement.

But it seems pretty evident this veteran was in a bad place and needed some help. Hopefully, he’ll get the assistance he needs before he hurts himself or someone else.

34

To be clear, this former Marine was not detained because of the Facebook posts. He was interviewed because of the nature of the Facebook posts and as a result of that interview, and the things he said during that interview that got him detained.

35

Not if his attorneys and the Rutherford Institute can help it. Where’s the ACLU when you need 'em? :rolleyes:

36

Jesus fucking Christ. If a cop ASKS me to go somewhere, and I decline, and I’m then put in handcuffs and hauled off, that’s a goddamn arrest regardless of what you, the Supreme Court, or God want to call it. And if I decline to be put in handcuffs, it can’t be “resisting arrest” if there was no legal arrest to begin with. You can’t have it both ways.

And if there was no legal reason for the cops to be there, then they’re only trespassers.

37

Yes. That’s the way the law is supposed to work. You CANNOT start locking people up because you THINK they might do something. That’s a big, black line - and if you cross it, you are crossing a pretty serious Rubicon.

38

Making public and credible threats is an overt act and constitutes a crime.

We can argue about the definition of “credible” or who gets to make the call, but this guy crossed the line from thinking to acting when he started posting delusional and threatening rants on FB. And now he’s in the jackpot.

39

Odd how this guy was never detained nor committed.

40

Please post for us each and every case of hypocrisy in every other city in the U.S. besides CHESTERFIELD, VA and tell me how they relate to the individuals involved in this particular incident.