I thought this was an interesting article. Basically saying that they are officially bring the Marine Raiders team back. Sounds like it may be a step up from MARSOC (if I read and understood correctly).
http://news.yahoo.com/rangers-seals-now-raiders-marines-resurrect-historic-name-084554038.html
The Raiders are MARSOC.
Ah, gotcha. I miss read the paragraph then. I saw it state that MARSOC marines have to endure grueling swims and hikes, etc I mistook it as those in MARSOC have to do even more to be a raider. I reread it and makes sense.
This happened a while back. http://archive.marinecorpstimes.com/article/20140806/NEWS/308060054/MARSOC-units-renamed-Marine-Raiders, Yahoo is behind the times
I’m not sure it was official until today. http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/06/19/return-of-the-raiders-marine-legends-attend-marsoc-renaming-event/29000153/
Raider patch in PVC anyone?
Commemorative patch of the USMC Raider Battlions
In January 1942, the Commandant of the Marine Corps issued orders to form the 1st Separate Battalion, under the command of LtCol Merritt Edson. The mission of the Separate Battalion was to be a light force capable of spearheading amphibious invasions, conducting direct action raids, and fighting as a guerilla force behind enemy lines. Their organization and training were based on the experiences of the British Commandos, as well as the personal observations of Edson in his battles with Nicaraguan guerillas and another officer, Major Evans Carlson’s observations of the Chinese guerilla battles against the Japanese.
The Raiders of WWII were roughly equivalent to the Ranger BN’s. Maybe the USMC is trying to have it’s own Ranger-like infantry units? i.e. not necessarily small teams but larger, company or battalion sized elements?
No, this is just a renaming of MARSOC, and their mission which is very different in a lot of ways than the Raiders of old.
http://warontherocks.com/2014/06/understanding-the-marine-corps-special-operators/
I’ve always thought the Ranger Bn’s were the Army’s attempt to have a Marine-like force.
Just kidding, but that got me 5 points with Chesty and Smedley.
They are a Marine-like force, the biggest difference is that they have Money. Which is why they are nothing like the Marine Corps:D
Yeppers.
Thanks for the smile! Money makes a huge difference. The amount of training they can do with funding make all the difference.
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/06/19/return-of-the-raiders-marine-legends-attend-marsoc-renaming-event/29000153/
Puhlease, spare me! Regular 0311 Marine line infantry units are the same as a Ranger batt? Ooookay…:rolleyes: Keep telling yourself that!
I’d say the Raiders of old were similar to the Ranger batts, MARSOC to SF, etc., and line grunts to line grunts in either service.
I won’t argue the money part however.
Do I think that the Rangers are anything like a 03 Marine, no. Not at all. The Rangers do share in the outlook of a smaller, light weight force that deploys rapidly in a moments notice, which is very much in line with the mission of the Fleet Marine Force, but again, the Money and the training have a good amount to do with the differences, and of course the biggest difference is the secured in the Branches themselves, as Marines we believe in Small unit leadership, which is something that the Army wants but doesn’t instill like we do.
Fair enough. In agreement on all points.
Hey, I was Airborne Infantry and that was “hooaahh” enough for me! No way I would’ve wanted to live a grueling, Cretan lifestyle in a Ranger batt. There’s a fine line between hardcore and stupidity, and while regular infantry units certainly cross it from time to time (Marine ones too I’m sure) the Rangers live primarily on one side of that line! Not a slam on Rangers at all as my hat’s off to anyone who lives that life, especially guys who spend most of a career there. I shudder to think of that!
My reaction, without reading the article, was “Oh, the Marines want an uber-infantry/commando unit of sufficient size to perform Ranger battalion style missions”. Recon operates in much smaller elements than I was thinking of (I was thinking at least company size). Guess it’s still pretty cool they want to rename MARSOC after such a storied unit. The heritage is certainly there.
And while I think that is what most people will think of MARSOC/ Raiders, the truth is that their primary mission is the training of Foreign Soldiers in Foreign Internal Defense. However, they are training in Unconventional Warfare, which has been the Green Beret’s bread and butter, combine this with them pulling a good amount of people from Force Recon and all the stealth that involves and now you don’t have a door kicking assault force, instead you have a bunch of ghosts that can blend in and train the local populace, and that is bada$$. Think of ISIS dealing with their own home grown domestic terrorits. Puts a smile on my face.
That sounds really cool but isn’t really what’s happening with MarSoc. They’re still not allowed to grow beards or grow their hair out so it makes it hard to blend in with anyone but other Marines.
From what I understand Marsoc is more like an SF group not a Ranger Batt. They have teams that do FID and teams that do direct action, recon, etc… But they don’t seam to have relaxed standards like SF. The big USMC has never liked having units that were considered more “elite”. That’s why the WW2 Raiders were disbanded.
What I don’t understand is how they already have 2500+ in Marsoc. The units only been around for 9-10 years.
I wonder if that is counting the support units also. With the attrition rate alone they would have to be pumping out some serious numbers of classes to get those numbers. David
Are you talking from a place of experience? I have seen plenty of bearded MARSOC pipehitters that blend in quite well to even a foreign civilian populace…
Think about it: given the size of the Corps as compared to the Army, you wouldn’t need three Raider BN’s. Maybe one BN, with two companies on the West coast, and two on the East coast. Not forward deployed like a MEU, but based CONUS. However, like the Ranger batts they’d be air-deployable within a few hours (rotate the “on-call” status among the four companies). They could also be used as “hired guns” for the other Delta-ish MARSOC elements, like the Rangers do for Delta and DEVGRU. Of course they could also be called upon by Delta or DEVGRU if they were available or in the AO and Rangers weren’t for whatever reason. You basically be adding another Ranger (Raider in this case) unit to JSOC’s toolbox.