Marie

AR/M4 Custom Build Forum
1

Named her Marie after my then-fiancee’s (now wife’s) middle name. Been building/evolving her over the last 2 years. The idea is a general purpose fighting carbine.

I first began the project to get more familiar with the platform and to compliment the Armalite rifle I bought as a teenager stepping over into adulthood. Without researching much, I jumped on a deal for a DPMS stripped lower my local FFL had hanging out in his safe. Other than not dropping 2 GI mags (both Center Industries Corp. from Wichita, KA) free, it hasn’t given me any issues.

Phase 1:
[ul]
[li]DPMS stripped lower[/li][li]DPMS lower parts kit[/li][li]DPMS flat top upper (without barrel assy.)[/li][li]Del-Ton 1/9" chrome moly 16" barrel[/li][li]A2 flash hider[/li][li]A2 front sight base (not F marked)[/li][li]Troy folding rear sight[/li][li]Hogue grip[/li][li]Choate Tools 5 position stock[/li][li]Magpul MOE handguards[/li][li]Eotech XPS 2-0[/li][li]$5 2 point nylon sling[/li][/ul]

I decided the stock was too heavy, too wobbly, and pinched my beard too much. Additionally, some reading I did indicated the threads on a mil-spec stock actually filled the threads on the lower all the way. (Is this true? I couldn’t find anything solid on it.) Sorry, I forget who made the buffer tube.

Also decided to try out a cheap VFG on special to see what the hype was all about. For five dollars, why not?

Phase 2:
[ul]
[li]Magpul CTR stock[/li][li]Mil-spec buffer tube[/li][li]$5 no-name VFG[/li][/ul]

I was pretty happy with it, but decided it was time to learn how to do a trigger job. The trigger group came out and made friends with the Spyderco Tri-Angle sharpener and some quality grease. I was pleased with the results, but decided Geissele could do a much better job than I could.

Phase 3:
[ul]
[li]Geissele SSA trigger[/li][li]Blackhawk 3 point sling[/li][/ul]

Amazing improvement. Why are my groups still sucking? I shouldn’t be getting 3" groups at 25 yards off a rest, even with this poor quality XM193, etc… And shouldn’t that stuff be fine in a 1/9" twist barrel? Why is the 62 grain ammo giving poor results too?

I went with chrome moly again because of the purpose for this carbine. 2 MOA is OK, 12 was not. God save us all from protecting the Constitution.

I also decided to throw on a TA11F-A I had purchased with the Armalite long ago as a young man with no better bills to pay from Mom’s and Dad’s 2nd story.

Phase 4:
[ul]
[li]Daniel Defense Chrome Moly 16" barrel, 1/7" twist[/li][li]A2 front sight base, F marked[/li][li]YHM Phantom 2 flash hider[/li][li]LaRue free-float rail[/li][li]Trijicon ACOG[/li][/ul]

After researching much about bolt carrier groups, I have a Daniel Defense M16 BCG backordered. Hopefully I’ll see it in this lifetime. :wink:

Building and evolving has given me a deep connection to this carbine, and I can’t imagine ever selling or trading her. Will be more than happy to post different angles/closeups on request.




2

You learned the hard way why Del-ton sucks.

I would never recommend messing with a trigger group like you had in “phase 2”.
This is just asking for trouble.

3

Thank God for phases 2 (minus the VFG), 3, and especially phase 4. Sticking with the major components in phase one would’ve been insulting to your wife. What BCG are you running in that new barrel of yours?

4

polymorpheous, the trigger project was certainly fun and educational, but I agree; that’s why the Geissele was installed as soon as it got off the truck :wink:

Col_Crocs, it’s the DPMS bolt carrier group that came with the original DPMS upper. It should hold up just fine until the DD bolt carrier group makes it here. I’m hoping that’s under a month but expecting 6-12 months.



Curiously, what’s your beef with the VFG?

5

Current trends are toward grip pronation with minimal angulation at the wrist. The broom-handle concept is like so last year…

6

While the parts weren’t the best when you started, you’ve improved them.

One thing I’m not crazy on is the 3 point sling and VFG, but that’s just my opinion. Other than that I’d rock it.

Read up, and replace things as needed and you can end up with a solid carbine.

7

Hmac, I’ll be much more open-minded to rhetoric against the VFG than the proposed fashion statements.

Rmiller, thanks for the solid feedback. Can you suggest any replacement parts to improve reliability in its current state?

You’d think with all the fabled wide-open spaces in Texas I’d be able to step out in my back yard and run this gun, but urbanization has pretty much locked me into club carbine matches. That said, the 3 point sling seems to be ok. There may be a time when I have to haul this thing around on foot for 12 miles at a time, and the 3 point sling makes that thought bearable. :wink:

8

Take a hard look at the Blue Force gear VCAS sling.

9

All the fabled open spaces in Texass are just that- fabled. When I was exiled to Tejas, there were few places to go shooting and fewer to go 'wheeling.

Experiment with a good 2 point sling, I think you’ll find you like it better. There are times when the 3 point sling gets in the way of the controls

10

The barrel was a great start. I’d go ahead with the BCG you have planned on.

Like others said, experiment with a solid 2 point sling like the VCAS. It’s amazing simple and robust. I’ll never go back to a single point.

11

Thanks again for the feedback regarding the sling. Been mulling it over… yeah, you pick up the rifle and all you get is SLING in your face. We’ll give it a try and sell the one that loses out.

Anyway, it gives a great excuse to pay shipping on a Pow’r punch decapping rod and those QD sling swivels I’ve been contemplating :wink:

12

That’s cause 90-something percent of the land is privately owned and not state owned. And yes I agree, it blows… But I love this state.

If his view on the rifle is a fighting rifle why not run a single point that can convert to a 2-point when needed, similar to the MS3 (I know they dig in your neck, but they are coming out with a padded version soon, MS4)

Sent from God’s Country

13

[QUOTE

If his view on the rifle is a fighting rifle why not run a single point that can convert to a 2-point when needed, similar to the MS3 (I know they dig in your neck, but they are coming out with a padded version soon, MS4)[/QUOTE]

My “fix” for the neck rub blues with my MS3 was to take a couple pairs of old sock, cut the toes out of them and slip them over the sling into the “sweet spot”. A little riggers tape later and I was much more comfy.

14

You say it’s a fighting rifle. What are your plans for a light?

15

El Cid, thanks for challenging me with a damned good question. The Surefire M300A is my top choice, but I’m constrained by current budget and other priorities (mags, ammo, FAK, hydration, everything that’s just as important for the gun but doesn’t have a picatinny rail mount) for the theater I see this carbine in… Life situation has done a total 180 since I began putting it together.

I’ve toyed around with a Streamlight TLR-3 on it. It works well enough if I need it, but I’d rather keep it on the handgun. It’s just easier to go check out what the dog is barking this time with a handgun in my neighborhood. I don’t need to label myself with the local PD as “that guy” while the nosey neighbors repeatedly call the cops for me “brandishing” (the beholder needs new eyes, yes?)… Without opening up the invitation for a total handgun vs carbine vs shotgun for home defense tangent, I’ve weighed the pros and cons for myself, and I have all options on hot standby, and yes, opening and closing the safe every time I get home or leave is a PITA.

Let’s narrow down what I meant by “fighting rifle”. I envision this to be a minute man musket. It’s what I’m going to grab when I’m planning a road trip. It’s what I’m going to grab when it’s time to head to the family friend’s farm on the other side of the state. Most importantly, it’s what I’m going to grab when Paul Revere rides through my local neighborhood.

As previously alluded, I have a shotgun on home defense duty. Admittedly, it needs some illumination capability on it too, but that’s getting on another tangent. In the interim, I have the good old fashioned pistol with a mounted light and a hand light right there beside the shotgun at the ready. I love options. If I need the firepower and the power is running to the numerous night lights in the house, we’re good to go. If I need the lumens, I grab the light and handgun-with-light. More often than not, I’m going to be checking out a noise to see if it’s a problem rather than knowing a problem is there.

If I were to dedicate this carbine to home defense, the ACOG would come off, the rear sight would go up, and the TLR-3 would go on. There’s also the option of throwing an Eotech on there which is hanging out in the safe, waiting on me to decide what to do with it. I like the Eotech a lot, but I hate the idea of having to choose between turning the damn thing on when trouble comes or replacing the battery often and just leaving it on at night. There are answers for this too, but these answers raise more questions (such as repeat zero toggling between the two optics, blah blah blah).

El Cid, if you were in that situation, what would you do with a light? I’d like to hear your opinion. Thanks again.

16

I think Marie looks good, I applaud you for your efforts of taking a mundane performer…and biting the bullet after realizing your modern musket wasn’t up to par.

Good job man! Keep up the improvements…let the mission dictate the outfit, and shoot! Don’t let others persuade you, only you know what you need, and what suits you.

You seem like an intelligent person, more than capable of understanding the important things in a fighting carbine.

17

There’s a lot going on in this post - lol! Regarding optics, I tend to prefer Aimpoints. If you already have an EOTech it should do the job fine. The newer models tend to have fewer issues than the older versions. Realistically, unless you are shooting at long distances, I’d sell the EOTech and ACOG, then buy an Aimpoint PRO, a nice light, and lots of ammo.

Regarding the light… there are too many options to count.

  • Rail Mount Light (X300, TLR’s, WML, etc.): Since you have a quad rail, you can mount the light in a few places. With the FSB, the 12 o’clock isn’t an option. If you mount one directly to the handguard, my recommendation would be the 3 o’clock position (assumes you area a right handed shooter). Underneath will create bbl shadow and get in the way of supported positions and cover. Another option is the rail mount that attaches to the FSB. In that case, I would put it on the left side for support thumb activation.

http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/MIMCTAR-01.aspx

  • Barrel Light (6P, G2, Polytac, etc.): This is the path I chose for my duty rifle (quad rail and FSB). I used a Polytac LED light and the IWC/Thorntail mount. This puts the light further forward than putting it directly on the rail. This setup is also significantly less expensive than a M300A or getting a second pistol light.

http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/STL88851.aspx

http://www.impactweaponscomponents.com/category/mount-n-slot/light-mount/

I tend to agree with the others in this thread who recommend looking at your grip. If you are using the VFG as an index point to pull the weapon into your shoulder - good. But a shorter VFG will do the same and be less in the way. A handstop is also a good option (IWC, LaRue, AFG - though it’s much bulkier) for that. Your support thumb should be running along the left side of the handguard, pointed at the target IMO. Some prefer having the thumb over the top - but your physical build, the limitations of the equipment (short 7" handguards for example), and the environment will all help you figure out what is best for you.

Good luck!

18

Well I’m glad I found this thread about Accu-wedges. https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=89153

Hacked 0.62" off that VFG last night. We’re going to run that and see what it does. For a $5 piece whose only purpose was experimentation, I figured it was worth the fun sawing it off and filing it flat. Good to keep the hands moving, especially when the trigger finger has been stilled due to ammo supply/demand.

If nothing else, I’ll end up tossing it and running a bare handguard to buy the most versatility in improvised supports. I don’t like a lot of paraphernalia on the rifle anyway, and have even been considering dropping all optics in favor of irons. We’ll see how that plays out in the long run.

VCAS gets off the truck tomorrow with a couple VLTOR quick-disconnect swivels. Been wanting the swivels anyway… real eager to give that VCAS a whirl.

After that, it’ll be back to administering the next round of punishment to see where it breaks… (No, not contradicting myself, I have a little stash I’m willing to get into to make sure this thing will run the way I want it after changing things)

Patiently checking the email every day for the BCG. No telling when I’ll ever see that… womp, womp.

Thanks again for all the feedback. Mirrors on the Wall can be invaluable.

19

Good job with Marie. It’s good to see your rifle evolving to higher quality parts with time. I also agree that you will probably enjoy that Two point sling over the three. I personally love the padded VTAC sling. I feel it offers the ability to snug up the sling more so than the VCAS. YMMV

As for the light option, I highly recommend the Mossie Tactics Midnight mount ----->http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BattleComp-Mossie-Midnight-Mount-MT2400FSB-PIC-p/bce-mt2400fsb-pic.htm

I use this on my duty rifle with a surefire X300 Ultra light. It will give you the ability to run the light at the 12 o’clock position. I really like keeping things KISS. This light / mount is as simple as they get.

The X300U is 500 lumens, while the standard X300 is 170 lumens. Between the <$20 price difference, I would go with the X300U if you can find one.

The next option is the same mount using the new streamlight TLR1S. This light gives you a 300 lumens light in the same position, unfortunately the light is not as slim as the SF.

Between your light and sling, you will have a good all purpose defense carbine.

20

I am the biggest battery-phobe on this site. If it needs a battery, it don’t belong on my carbine- No sirree. I am also an advocate of iron sights. I feel everyone should learn how to use iron sights.

So keep that in mind when I tell you I have an Aimpoint H1 on my carbine. The battery lasts forever and the Aimpoint is faster than iron sights getting on target for the first shot and follow-up shots. The Aimpoint is well worth the money and I advise you put one on your carbine as well. It has a permanent home on my carbine.

You saw in my earlier post how I mounted a light to my carbine. It’s simple, rugged, keeps the rifle slim and is easy to operate. Installation is a snap. Here is the Mossie Mount & XD300 prior to installation.

The added bonus is the light can be quickly removed from the rifle and installed on the pistol.

It’s not a cheap set-up by any stretch of the imagination. Sticker shock for the light nearly knocked me out of my socks! However, I have no regrets. The light is very light and bright (get it? The light is very light and… never mind…). Surefire now offers an improved version that puts out even more light.

I have put several hundred rounds through the rifle and a few mags worth through the pistol with the light mounted and nothing has broken. The light is on it’s third set of batteries as I’ve used it quite a bit as a regular flashlight. The XD300 has also found a permanent place in my kit.

I am very satisfied with the performance of the Aimpoint H1, the Mossie Midnight light mount and the Surefire XD300. Coming from a proud battery-phobe, that’s saying something