I wanted to post some observations from the past weekends Magpul Dynamics Carbine I Course. This is not about the course itself, but rather the observations I made during the 1.5 days that I was there in relation to weapons issues/ failures.
This isn’t going to be a bash fest, just pure observation from the issues I saw and the weapons that I fixed.
One of the shooters was using a LaRue SBR upper. I believe that it was a 12" with a PWS flash hider or something. Starting day two he was having feed issues when he would chamber a round with the bolt locked back. He would hit the bolt release and the rounds would hang up. It wouldn’t happen everytime and it sometimes couldn’t be replicated. I measured the action spring and it was right at 10". Replaced it with a new Colt spring and it still happened, although with less frequency.
I believe that one of the causes was the the lack of M4 feedramps as the rounds appeared to be hanging up where the upper and barrel extension met up. The short spring wasn’t helping.
LWRC M6- The shooter had some issues on day two with the Magpul PMAG’s he was using. This one baffled me because he had no issues and then all of a sudden it became very difficult to seat the magazines. It even had some issues with my PMAG’s which have been 100% for me, thus far. The mags are going to be replaced.
Noveske 13.7 with pinned KX3. This gun was running fine for the most part, but some issues were popping up. One thing I noticed was the the receiver extension was screwed to far into the lower and was actually causing the buffer retainer to bind. Apparently the shooter had recently had someone install a sling plate on it. Obviously whomever did the work wasn’t AR savy. In addition the Enidine buffer being used was a piece of shit and was causing issues. We dropped an H2 buffer in it from my stash and he had no more issues. His charging handle is also very close to failing (left handed shooter and it’s getting stressed out) and fortunately it was caught and he’ll be getting a BCM Mod 3 soon.
Young MFG bolt carrier- I don’t recall the exact AR set up, but the shooter was using a Young MFG bolt carrier and experiencing failures to extract. I checked the extractor spring and it was pretty weak. In addition the extractor insert was missing, but there was a donut on it. I replaced the extractor spring with one from Specialized Armament (Ken’s green one) and the gun ran like a champ the rest of the course from what I could see.
CMMG/BCM 20" upper build. This one was a little weird as well. The shooter knew he had an issue, so I stood by and observed him as he was shooting. There were intermittent failures to feed. In some cases it almost seemed as if it was short stroking. We pulled it down and I tore it down quickly checking the action spring and making sure that the buffer was correct. Next I went to the BCG and checked it. All was good. Wiped everything down, put some more lube on it and sent the shooter back out. He had been running Wolf the whole time (and it was pretty nasty) so we starting to think there was an ammo issue. One of the instructors had him load 30 rounds of brass case ammo and start the next course of fire. Weapon ran fine even after he switched back to the Wolf. Jury is still out on this one.
Doublestar ARbortion- This one was a real whopper. The barrel and lower were made by Doublestar. It had some type of odd ball screwed on gas block that used 4 screws at a 45 degree angle. None of the screws had Rocksett or Loctite applied to them nor was the barrel dimpled and the screws didn’t have pointed tips. The barrel had some weird type of spacer on it and then they installed the flash hider. It wasn’t timed properly and was probably offset by a whole turn. Someone installed a UTG rail and it wasn’t done correctly. The entire barrel nut was exposed. They simply clamped the rail closed and tightened the screws. They also didn’t have any threadlocker applied and were loosening. I am surprised that the thing made it to day 3. Towards the end of the course it was malfunction and when I pulled it down to check it the gas block started moving forward as all of the screws had loosened and one was MIA.
The castle nut was also loosening as was the receiver extension. Myself and another M4 member who spouse was attending the course managed to get the flash hider and everything else fixed. The shooter was advised to junk the upper and get a good one.
Lessons Learned-
For those that continue to insist that their less than AR is good to go, you need a reality check. A course like this with a high round count is going to reveal your flaws. Maybe it will be on day one, or on day three. But, it will happen.
Even a name brand will fail if you allow someone to dick with it that doesn’t have experience or training.
Be wary of aftermarket crap. I can’t say this enough. Don’t just change stuff out because you read on the net that xxxx is the best thing in town. Use quality parts and use decent ammo. If you think that your AR will run with Wolf or Brown Bear, more power to you. Just be aware that in a course like this any down time will hurt the class as a whole and you will lose valuable training time.
Good post gunz. I recently put my BCM 16" middy back into service as my primary patrol rifle. I recently switched departments, and had to give up my Colt M4 to the agency I was leaving. My BCM sits on a Bushmaster lower, that I have completely gutted over the past few years and upgraded with lower parts from LMT, BCM, DD and the like. I was actually a bit nervous about how it would perform as I have always been a bit self conscious of the Bushy lower. Being that I am in CA, it is a registered assault weapon and not to easy to just switch out the lower.
That being said, the gun ran perfect over about 1500 rounds in 2.5 days of range training at my new department. I did not clean it until the last day, I just kept it lubed with Slip 2000 and it was good to go. I am a big beleiver in quality parts, even if they have to rest in a Bushy lower :D.
Good post. It reminds of reading Pat Rogers’ posts on Lightfighter where he touches on equipment failure(s) on his own class AARs.
It’s good to read what works and what doesn’t. As always YMMV.
Good post, thank god it was a training class and IG was there to diagnose the problems. Imagine if it wasn’t training and a real life or death situation. Spend money wisely on quality parts and service.
Excellent Post, once again affirming the use of quality products. Im taking a DOA Tactical course this coming sunday and im looking forward to see how my gun will function under the duress of a hard course.
Better to diagnose and fix on the one-way than the two-way range.
I can’t stress this enough. Know your weapon. I highly recommend that anyone who attends a training class bring some spare parts. I don’t think anyone did bring any to this class. Also, bring some basic tools. Doesn’t need to be much. Here’s a brief recommendation;
Tools/Kit-
Multitool with bits (Multitasker) or screwdriver set.
Loctite
GI cleaning kit
Small punch kit
Shop rags or towels
Parts-
Spare bolt or a minimum of spare extractor assembly.
Spare parts is the main reason im giving my son my stag M8 and getting a DD m4v5 or MK18. Now i will not knock my M8 its been good to me and my buddy just did swat tryouts and a patrol carbine class with it last week, he put 1,000 trouble free rounds in it in 2days. But for me i want to be able to have a spare bolt and what not. But its a huge pain in the ass to get spare parts for a piston gun.
I can’t tell you as I didn’t ask about the history. There were alot of different versions of AR’s, a couple of SCARS’s and an FS2000. Most of the AR’s seemed to be running fine. I’ll see if I can get more details this time around.
Wow, thank god you were there to save the day! Is this your regular gig? You know it’s funny I’ve seen a few of the carbine course trailers and Travis H. was running a Young bcg
I think I did see some spare weapons and guys with multiple weapons. Also, Steve and Chris had a few of their own and were more than willing to loan them out when needed. I though that was super awesome for them to offer that.
I’ll ask this week when I am there for Part Deuce and will try and make some other notes as time permits.
I have a course coming up in Dec and to my shame I’ll be using an AR with a Bushy lower with a Model 1 Sales upper.:fie:
I bought the rifle before knew much about AR’s and thought I’d just run the bitch to see what fails first. I’ve been through the rifle and with my limited knowledge everything appears OK. I did have to stake the castle nut, which wasn’t done. The bolt carrier key is adequately staked and marked.
So far so good with my piece of trailer trash. I have about 3k rounds through it since last Feb with only one stoppage, a stovepipe that may have been due to over-gassing caused by a muzzle device I was testing that day. I don’t know how many rounds were through it before I bought it, though judging by the condition It was probably less than 1K.
That being said, I am bringing a bunch of spare parts, tools and a spare rifle to the course. To be honest, I don’t expect my franken rifle will fail, but I’m ready for any of the usual small parts failures that are common.
Whenever we get one of those ‘But I could roll my own for less and save a few bucks…’ posts, it should link directly to this thread. Can’t help but notice that many of the troubled rifles were some variety of ‘do-it-yourself’ builds - and those that weren’t may have been tinkered with by someone less than qualified to perform the work.
There’s a lot to be learned by picking up a stripped lower and putting the parts together yourself, but that shouldn’t be the first and/or only rifle in the safe. And certainly it shouldn’t be the first in the bag to go to a professional training course - unless you really know what you’re doing at that point and have the requisite experience to have that level of confidence in your builds.
Though I applaud those who are seeking quality training, if you’re spending more on the tuition and ammunition required for three days of classes than you are on your rifle, you are actually shortchanging both your gear and your education. Your rifle will likely fail to perform, and you won’t get the entire benefit of the training as you’ll be sorting out malfunctions when you could be on the line, learning. It is a buyer’s market right now, and there has never been a better time to purchase a quality carbine at a low price.
Spending a few extra dollars on quality ammunition at a training course may also avoid problems and frustration. Why compromise your learning by skimping a few bucks on ammo?
My two cents - thanks again for the informative post.
To be honest, I don’t expect my franken rifle will fail, but I’m ready for any of the usual small parts failures that are common.