Just being curious…
Is it an acceptable practice to use the magazine as a resting point on a hard flat surface like a monopod to stabilize the weapon? That especially applies to magazine like Lancer that has a rubber floor pad.
Thanks.
I recall Pat Rogers did a recent article on that very topic in SWAT magazine (I think). It had some good information in it. I’ll see if I can dig up the article and get you the issue information, if that will help.
The Magpul boys recommend using it as a monopod in the prone postion. Sure, there are some trainers who say this can cause some malfunctions – but I haven’t encountered any using the monopod technique. I don’t burn through as many rounds as some of the guys here, but certainly more than my fair share!
The only problem I could see with it is if when dropping into the prone you’re letting the mag be the first thing to hit the ground and putting your body weight into/onto it. I would try to be conscious of this if you’re doing up-down/react to contact drills. If you’re just plinking at the range and getting down into the prone casually, I wouldn’t worry about it too much. It’s a great way to steady the weapon if you don’t have any sandbags. When we do firing from the prone unsupported in the army they tell us to use the mag to help steady the weapon.
I wish they would’ve told me to do that. I’ll have to try it next time I’m at the range. Well, at the rifle range.
The demo range is a bad place to be practicing this sort of thing. And I doubt it’d be much help on the pistol range…
Yeah it works great if your zeroing, shooting at a plate, or something of the like. If you’re qualifying it can get a little awkward cause you have to swivel the rifle on the mag to get the 50 left/right. I just pick it up to hit the 50 left/right or anything that’s dramatically to the left or right of me and then plant it on the mag for the relatively straight ahead shots. Like the 300’s for example.
When dropping into the prone, the magazine is not hitting first – support hand hits the ground first. Sometimes when doing this, you might bang the rear of the stock into the ground, but if you’re already taking fire – that’s the least of your worries.
No, I meant if you’re dropping into the prone and letting the mag be the first to hit the ground. Or just coming down on it really hard in general.
Agreed, when taking fire, who gives a shit.
Is that the current training? Last I was taught, you hit the ground with the stock first.
Of course, that was the old A2, not the M4. It does rather makes sense to drop the off-hand to make contact first because the shortened stock is, well, short.
The myth of the malfunctioning monopoded magazine needs to die. It is a highly effective way of stabilizing your gun in the prone position, and will always be available when bipods, sandbags, and other supports are not.
I’ve been to courses where the practice was prohibited or frowned upon. Whenever possible, I’ve simply disregarded such advisories and demonstrated the fallacy of it all.
It is conceivable that monopoding the mag could create conditions where stoppages may occur, but this will be with suspect components with great deviations in tolerance and tolerance stacking. However, an AR likely to malfunction while monopoded will also be likely to malfunction for other reasons as well.
The way I was taught is that you get on your haunches (spelling?) like you’re squating, put your support hand down then kick your legs out as you fall onto your stomach. Of course, if you’re receiving fire and you haven’t practiced it enough to the point where it’s become muscle memory, you’re just gonna want to get the fuck down as fast as you can.
It was at the Magpul HVWM Course with Costa in February.
I agree completely, I was just trying to think up a way that it could fuck up your mag. Falling onto it with the weight of your body seemed to be a pretty good one.
Copy that. You’re right. Didn’t catch your if letting.
There is no squatting the way Costa teaches it. Trust me. Had the scrapes to prove it.
When I was in the Marines it was a big NO NO to do this, I however dont know why, I either forgot or it was just never explained to me.
Well the squatting part was extremely low speed. Beginner level stuff to get a feel for the motions. The high speed version becomes all one swift motion.
The entire “Issue” with using your magazine as a monopod in the prone position was created by God only knows, and it has been perpetuated via Military Doctrine for the past few decades.
As long as you arent using your rifle to balance your entire body weight while doing a hand-stand and shooting it at the same time, you wont have an “issue”.
Funny thing about this is that in the first Magpul Dynamics DVD, the Art of the Tactical Carbine, one of the students (Debbie?) had their mag resting on the deck in the grass (using it as a monopod) when they were about to BZO their carbines, and Travis Haley saw this and walked over to the student and told her she needed to get that magazine up off the deck so that it doesn’t induce a stoppage of her weapon.
After I saw that DVD, I stated seeing pics in Pat Rogers’ AARs over on LightFighter where his students would be lying prone in the dirt and obviously using their mags as monopods. So I figured it’s probably okay, but was still kind of confused.
Then, while watching the Art of the Tactical Carbine Volume:2, I notice that both Chris and Travis use the monopod in the prone position whenever they demo the drills beforehand, and all of their students (at least most of them) were using it too whenever they’d dive down to the ground into the prone position.
And that’s also how it was in my Magpul Dynamic Carbine 1 course down here in Houston, TX several months ago now.
It’s a really good example of how Magpul Dynamics is not all about “absolutes.” They’ll say all the time that something you learned in a previous carbine class you took from them might not be the way it’s done anymore by the time you make it to your next course with them. That’s because MD is a constantly changing things up and evolving in order to find the best and most efficient TTPs out there with no absolutes.
I was just thinking that when I read one of the above posts, and then I read yours. I guess he changed his mind since AOTTC.
To the OP, when shooting from prone, both elbows and the 30 round mag on the deck is a really stable shooting position.
The old thinking was that using a magazine as a monopod would induce stoppages. I have seen this actually happen with an ancient magazine. It’s not an indicator that the technique is flawed, it shows that your magazine is ate up and needs to be moved over to the “range only” pile.
The instructors I have trained with have advocated using the magazine as a monopod since anything you can do to make the gun steadier will aid your shot placement. They also train that when you go prone, don’t land on your friggin gun.
The downsides of the magazine monopod method are worth noting. One, older mags with worn feed lips or mag catches could induce a stoppage. Two, with mags and gear on your chest, it may be hard for some folks to get low enough in the prone to see their through their sights as they normally would. You may have to adopt a slightly unconventional prone to get your eyes in position to shoot.