Due to a recent hard drive failure I got a new PC.
I started using DOS based PCs well over 20 years ago,
and Windows by 94.
I have always worked where Windows/PCs are used.
I have always had a lap top or desk top in Windows.
I never went the Mac route because I did not want to learn a new system.
So I ate years of viruses, malware, and blue screens of death my wife does not in her Mac world.
My new desktop has Windows 8.
I think this system would be fine on a pad/touch screen.
But all I use a touch screen/pad for is to dick around watching movies, reading email, etc.
For real work I use a docked lap top or desk top with mouse and key board.
Windows 8 is horrible for this. It is so bad, myself and some others that recently got it are actually talking about getting Macs for home.
They have hosed who knows how many people that will now have a home Windows system that is nothing like their work Windows system, and I know of no large company that would be willing to eat the ass pain of converting everyone to Windows 8.
I think it is a failure for work based systems.
I would fire the guy that designed it.
I’ve used every iteration of windows since 3.11 and DOS before that. I have used apple since the IIE and the little Macintosh, and I can say that I don’t really understand any gripe about an OS, I regularly flow between them since the beginning (with the exception of DOS of course, that required some training.) My home comp for the last six years was a iMAC running an early OSX. I just replaced it with a Dell desktop running WIN 8. I replaced it primarily because the monitor was giving out and I was going to have to update to a new OS, wasn’t reading a lot of java anymore and a lot of littel ticky issues that we not deal breakers by themselves.
My main reason for picking a PC was cost, that I’m simply not going to have another “all in one” computer.
Win 8 is the most noticeably different OS I have ever seen and I have to think to do a few things (or at least I did for a couple of hours.) I can see it’s appeal for a touch screen, but a touch screen does not fit my style. A lot of the touch screen specific things I am tuning out. Pretty much go straight past the start screen to the desktop and start stuff with a mouse. I guess I’m hopelessly old school.
There are a couple of things I didn’t like and a couple of aspects of dealing with Microsoft I don’t like, but all in all it’s just another OS.
My computer needs are relatively simple. I word process, I write some fairly complex spreadsheets but all of that is dealing with Office, I would actually prefer it was still Microsoft works that came with my original 3.11 machine. I could do 90% of what I do now a whole lot simpler. Of course I manage files pics and make the occasional video- file management is the same as anything, switching between the MAC movie maker and the WIN movie maker takes a bit of work.
Anyway up to you. I work with everything from an as/400 running system 36 to linux systems(debain, red hate enterprise, etc), apples(phones to servers), everything windows, and unix systems running power processors.
Personally I like my 13 inch mbp(current gen i7) but don’t like where they are going with them. I’d prob get the windows system and save some money. Really comes down to what you do with it and what software you need to run though.
You can always use something like classic shell which pretty much makes it like windows 7. Most of my clients that have deployed windows 8 systems have done this.
This discussion has made me decide on a 15" Mac Pro lap top which will be my main comp. I tend to have a lot of stuff open and or run memory intensive stuff editing HD vids in Imovie, etc. so the lap top I get has to have the horse power to do that.
The desk top I have (see link above) is great for all that but can’t travel with it, and the old mac lap top with limited memory etc, really only good for web basic stuff, and thus, one comp to cover my needs appears to be the next step.
I gave up on PC’s in 1998 or so. Haven’t looked back. Partly because the program I use every day (Pro Tools) is best on the Mac platform, and partly because I find the OS far more intuitive than Windows. It just works “how you would think it should”, for lack of a better way of explaining it.
I work with a collection of cats - from knuckle dragging door kickers to cyber security nerds who hack cell phone towers as a hobby.
It is my observation that Mac is pretty fire-and-forget for the average user. All products are integrated and they are deep into cloud computing.
PC is cheap but seems to require CONSTANT maintenance. Malware abounds and in my 30 years or so using PCs, it seems like I am always living in a bad cyber neighborhood. Someone is always trying to break in and steal your shit.
Linux is the heat if you are inclined to learn it, build your own PC, and like to tinker on this sort of stuff. Think of it as building up your M4 from individual parts. Most people just want to buy a gun and go shooting.
I had a large HP touch screen (Touchsmart 600?). Mostly the kids used it. I didn’t really see much benefit on trying to push buttons on such a large screen. Touch screen for a smart phone or tablet makes sense but the ergonomics are all wrong for a desktop.
Right now as an experiment I am using a Chromebook. I am going to see where this Chrome OS thing goes. I like it because it is pretty bulletproof and simple. There is no maintenance because Google pushes all of the updates and, as yet, no malware or serious security issues. I like the GUI.
Mac and OSX quality has declined notably in the past 10 years that I’ve been using their product.
Microsoft and Windows has improved notably in the past 10 years.
My Macintosh requires at least the same, if not more, maintenance than my PCs.
Apple’s security advantage has likewise gone significantly down. The notion that you can’t get a virus on a mac, often repeated 10 years ago, is nowhere to be found these days. If you use some basic security precautions (don’t use your computer as an admin), Windows security is comparable to Apple with appropriate AV.
The quality differential is really not worth the cost, without factoring in other things (job, graphics etc.) and unless you have a need to be in Apple (lots of itunes purchases for that matter).
If you’re reasonably technically competent, and don’t mind learning some basic linux commands, I’d seriously consider a linux distribution like Ubuntu. It will breathe a lot of life in older intel boxes, and is the arguably the most cost effective and stable OS out there. I’ve come across machines with uptimes of a better part of a decade.
Win8 actually starts about 2x as fast as Win7. If you were a Mac user, the interface probably actually prefers you vs. Win7 Users. However, there are programs out there that remove the Metro screen so you get the better load time while still keeping the standard interface that people have been using since win95…
I use both platforms on a daily basis (I run both OSX and Windows 7 on my Mac) and while I agree that Windows is better than it used to be (Windows 7, anyway, and I don’t have any experience with Windows 8) I haven’t found any quality degradation at all in OSX. As to security…I still have to run virus software on Windows. I’ve never run any virus software whatosever on my Mac in 10 years, nor have I needed it (and I run it as Admin). If we’re talking anecdotes here, that’s mine.
Dude I’ve owned Macs for over a decade. I’m typing this on a Mac, but I’m tired of drinking the Kool-aid.
I run all of the above in my job. I see a lot more systems than most admins do as I work for a variety of companies as tech consultants. Windows/Linux remains far and away the most commonly used systems because far and away they are the most cost effective for most uses.
AV:You never run virus software on Mac in 10 years? Ok, you’re lucky. I’ve seen plenty of Mac viruses but hey, your system, your call. I know a lot of Mac gurus that do. Sure, you run least privilege so that’s cool, but that problem goes away if you don’t run on your admin login as do most Windows issues. As an infosec professional, Mac is an extreme rarity, and the overwhelming stated preference is for Windows/Linux based tools.
Stability: 5 years ago I used to laugh at BSOD, as it was a not un-common experience. Now it is far less common than the spinning beachball of doom. Windows 7 works great for most users. I’ve not had a deep dive into 8, but I think it’s a game changer from what I’ve heard, especially with the bullshit apple lawsuits out there. It should be noted that Linus Torvald is now leading the development of Windows 9.
OSX hasn’t been the same since Lion, it certainly isn’t the same as it was when OSX was introduced.
Longevity: My experience varies significantly from years. The durability and longevity is also not the same. I used a powerbook G4 for the better part of a decade, even when I bought new machines. At best I got 3 years of practical use out of them.
I’ve had two MBPros in the last 4 years with logic boards go tits up spontaneously, Apple replaced one of them, but the other was barely over 2 years old. Fair enough, out of warranty, but they aren’t the same quality as they used to be and I still think it’s kind of bullshit. 2.2 years on a $2k computer? Fuck that.
My gaming PC is 5 years old, and still plays brand new releases with pretty remarkable quality and stability. I have about $1200 in that system.
Sorry they might technically be superior, but is that worth the premium?
Windows stability is a lot better than it used to be. But I RARELY get a spinning pizzawheel of doom (beachball) on OS X. They are usually related to I/O timeouts btw. They do happen, but should not be more than rare.
Windows 7 works great for most users. I’ve not had a deep dive into 8, but I think it’s a game changer from what I’ve heard, especially with the bullshit apple lawsuits out there.
what BS lawsuits? Do you mean the ones to protect their IP? Bow is that BS? (start another thread if you want to discuss)
You do realize that Apple is the most sued tech company in the world.
It should be noted that Linus Torvald is now leading the development of Windows 9.
I’d go check the date on that news release you read…
OSX hasn’t been the same since Lion, it certainly isn’t the same as it was when OSX was introduced.
Yes, it is much better now.
Longevity: My experience varies significantly from years. The durability and longevity is also not the same. I used a powerbook G4 for the better part of a decade, even when I bought new machines. At best I got 3 years of practical use out of them.
I’ve had two MBPros in the last 4 years with logic boards go tits up spontaneously, Apple replaced one of them, but the other was barely over 2 years old. Fair enough, out of warranty, but they aren’t the same quality as they used to be and I still think it’s kind of bullshit. 2.2 years on a $2k computer? Fuck that.
Too bad. All my Macs are working great, get daily use, and the newest one is from Nov 2008.
(Well, maybe one of the minis is Spring 2009)
My main machine – the one I make money on and use for hours a day – in a 2008 Mac Pro tower I got in mid 2008. I have replaced some disks with SSDs for performance reasons and the graphics card that came with it did go tit’s up finally last year, though I think it may have been user-induced thermal fatigue since it had a billion inches of dust on it as I had not opened the machine in a long time due to its awkward positioning.
My gaming PC is 5 years old, and still plays brand new releases with pretty remarkable quality and stability. I have about $1200 in that system.
Sorry they might technically be superior, but is that worth the premium?
Nope.
Approximately equivalent PC hardware from name brand PC manufacturers is approximately the same cost as the equivalent Apple machine. In most cases, there is not an equivalent PC to the Apple because most PC manufacturers have raced to the bottom of the barrel
You can build your own PC a lot cheaper, but that is not a reasonable comparison.
Apple is just a much better experience for the user. After the buy support for PC’s sucks. I have overhead people calling Dell with business class products and get hung up on or told they its a Windows issue. For the consumer having one company making the OS and hardware with a good CS track record is a lot better than the non-support you will get with a PC.
The security issues with both both OS’s are because people are stupid. I had a friend ask me for help on his machine and the thing was so chock full of malware I couldn’t believe it. People will click on anything and almost all security problems are because people are stupid. All I run is Malwarebytes and the stock MS scanner on our Win 8 pc and haven’t had jack in years.
People are still sending money to West African email scammers. You can’t create a program for those people besides taking their internet access away.
Or no desire to run clunky windows. It is not the HW, it is the software.
There is personal preference involved of course, but I have Win 7 installed on my Mac Pro through bootcamp and cannot believe how clunky it is in comparison.
If you’re reasonably technically competent, and don’t mind learning some basic linux commands, I’d seriously consider a linux distribution like Ubuntu. It will breathe a lot of life in older intel boxes, and is the arguably the most cost effective and stable OS out there. I’ve come across machines with uptimes of a better part of a decade.
Any machine that has not been rebooted in years will be lacking in security updates, and Linux is no more secure than OS X unless you turn off networking completely. If you look at the various places that track security issues, there are a LOT of them that affect Linux.
My Macs only get rebooted when I do SW update or need to move things. They are rarely rebooted for any other reason.
(The same could probably be said of Win7 now – MS has made very good effort with their stability and security)
Boot time on Win 7 isn’t the fastest, but it is stable and it can be more than adequately secured. Typically it runs far fewer services than previous windows or OSX. I’m not saying OSX is unstable, I’m not talking absolutes. I’m talking a cost-benefit ratio of buying a windows vs. OSX machine. OSX is significantly less stable than it used to be, and Windows is significantly more stable than it used to be. That you can buy a thin windows netbook for about $400, 1/3 the price of a macbook air. Is it 3x “better”? Nope.
Any machine that has not been rebooted in years will be lacking in security updates, and Linux is no more secure than OS X unless you turn off networking completely. If you look at the various places that track security issues, there are a LOT of them that affect Linux.
Yep, and increasingly this is true for OSX as well. The difference is that Linux has a whole community of developers who fix patches (for free) and publicly release them (for free) at a pace that blows the doors off either Microsoft or Apple.
Linux machines are often used for processes that require great stability. In this case yes the system wasn’t networked, but that’s still pretty impressive.
My Macs only get rebooted when I do SW update or need to move things. They are rarely rebooted for any other reason.
Your system, your call.
As for protecting IP, sure, I understand that, but it’s a pretty significant abuse of the patent system. Unless you really believe Apple should be the only manufacturer of smartphones out there?
The jury decided poorly.
All of this is besides the fact that the “Apple Experience” which used to be part of the premium has virtually disappeared. Their products aren’t nearly as innovative, and they’ve bungled more than a few products and business decisions.
An apple user walks into a bar…or a restaurant, or a cafe…he’s not really sure.
That said I prefer to let the wonder twins speak for themselves.
Yep, and increasingly this is true for OSX as well. The difference is that Linux has a whole community of developers who fix patches (for free) and publicly release them (for free) at a pace that blows the doors off either Microsoft or Apple.
Most of the issues that affect OS X are the same sort that affect Linux. That is, issues in Open Source software that Apple includes or uses in the system. 9(
Note that I did not say ALL the issues. There are issues in Apple specific software as well.
Linux machines are often used for processes that require great stability. In this case yes the system wasn’t networked, but that’s still pretty impressive.
I’d rather use (and do use) FreeBSD and/or Solaris (in the guise of one of the forked versions based on OpenSolaris).
Much more stable than Linux and in terms of Solaris at least, with much more capability.
Your system, your call.
As for protecting IP, sure, I understand that, but it’s a pretty significant abuse of the patent system. Unless you really believe Apple should be the only manufacturer of smartphones out there?
The jury decided poorly.
It is no abuse of the patent system and it just shows your ignorance of what the actual issues were.
The issues were not “rounded corners” btw. That was Samsung FUD.
Released Samsung documents even show that Samsung knew they were copying Apple. Their internal documents admitted it.
Apples patents don’t prevent anyone from making a smartphone. They just prevent it from copying the iPhone, which is basically what Samsung had done. (and at least with earlier versions of Android, what Android had done – Google did not invent Android, they bought it, and before the iPhone it looked nothing like what it was changed to look like after the iPhone came out, which was to try and copy the iPhone experience.
All of this is besides the fact that the “Apple Experience” which used to be part of the premium has virtually disappeared. Their products aren’t nearly as innovative, and they’ve bungled more than a few products and business decisions.
In your opinion.
The “Apple Experience” in the opinion of the market says otherwise: Apple has mostly been growing their share including the PC share while Windows and Windows box makers have been losing.
There are still plenty of “switchers” out there and more and more people are coming to the Mac through their iPhone and iPad experience.
No company is perfect and they all make poor decisions from time to time. Apple has just made a lot fewer of them than Microsoft or Google has the last few years.
An apple user walks into a bar…or a restaurant, or a cafe…he’s not really sure.
That said I prefer to let the wonder twins speak for themselves.
I appreciate yours as well, but I really wasn’t trying to compare credentials. You mentioned being an admin, I wanted to assure you that I knew a little bit about what I’m speaking about. I get paid pretty well for it but I certainly don’t feel that my opinion is what counts. There are lots of people that know a lot more than me.
We also come from very different technical arenas. There are lots of people I know, PhDs in Computer Science/Infosec research labs, with more experience than you (or me) that would agree with my assessment.
