Here is a video I recently did shooting M855A1 at Level III AR500 steel body armor.
[video=youtube_share;e0gxeSpjdSk]http://youtu.be/e0gxeSpjdSk[/video]
I will step up to Level III+ next!
Where did you find M855A1?
I made a post on FB asking if anyone could donate some for testing. A guy said he traded someone for a box of ammo, and of the 500 rounds a few of these were laying in there so he gave them to me for testing.
Thank you for the test!
Ditto…
Scroll up lol
I recall seeing it for sale a few months ago, but the price was like $2 per round before shipping. I didn’t bother getting any.
In my testing / research it’s an amazing round. I’d buy as much as I could if I saw it for a decent price.
I do too, can’t remember where. Too rich for my blood.
Where were they for sale at? It would be interesting to try some out on common barriers, it would be really interesting to see it tested against 7N10 5.45x39mm, the Rosoboron specs say 5mm armor plate at 150m or 16mm mild steel penetration at 300m, I think Russia adopted 7N10 as their standard service cartridge in 91 to replace the aging 7N6 (aka their version of green tip, but more consistent wounding of soft tissue as it’s not range dependent). Actually I thing green tip has issues at both very close (0-50m) and longer ranges (150+). Close range is due to the random angle of attach, which causes it to ice pick some times and the other is due to velocity loss (no fragmentation), but surprising XM193 will zip right through steel plates at close ranges when M855 and 7N6 fail to (but probably fair much better at barriers at longer ranges).
It looks like a very good military and SHTF round. Too much penetration for general HD use. In a decade+ when there is less expensive surplus maybe I’ll get some…
I appreciate you posting the 2 tests of it! Depending on world events, I may have another deployment in my career, good to have an idea what to expect from the ammo I’ll likely be issued.
They were given to me for testing, I wish I found them for sale some where.
Ah, I see. I did not think they were for sale. Technically if they can pierce Level 3 hard armor, they are classified as AP to my knowledge, which is not legal for civilian sale (hopefully XM193 doesn’t get too noticed). It’s ironic how the communist anti-human rights politicians want to ban M855 like they did 7N6 yet M855 (and 7N6) won’t go through Level 3 AR steel plates, but XM193 will…at least at ranges less than 25 yards.
Ah . . . no. The federal law defining “armor piercing ammunition” says nothing about what a bullet “can pierce” to be “classified as AP.”
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Unfortunately potential near peer militaries that do have access to body armor do not use AR500 or AR680 steel plates for body armor. Unless its proven that M855A1 can punch through Level IV ceramic armor I do not see a point in issuing this ammo as general purpose. Considering that most battlefield barriers are not some kind of hardened steel plate but wood and masonry or mud brick it would make more sense to issue something like mk318.
I do however think its a good belt fed MG round but unless they fixed the pressure issues, the increase wear and tear on carbines is not worth it. Just my thoughts.
Most of our adversaries won’t be wearing level IV ceramic…and even if they did, what weapon/ammo combo would we be likely to issue to defeat that? Saying it isn’t any good unless it can punch through a level IV SAPI is a bit much since short of a 300 WM converted M24, we don’t have anything that will.
Would it surprise you that most of the boron carbide plates sold in the US are sintered in chinese factories? Make no mistake, the ability to manufacture level IV ceramic armor isnt all that difficult, it wouldnt be a stretch of the imagination that any near peer adversary would be able to issue them en masse especially when they can just hand them out to lets say for example separatist ‘rebels’ in Ukraine.
If a shooting war with a near peer military occurs we would have to go straight to issuing M995. Just look at what the DoD is paying per round, its MORE expensive than Mk262 or 70gr Brown tip. Since you are getting close to M995 prices we would be better off stocking large quantities of black tip for near peer adversaries and using Mk318 for the current war(s).
Originally Posted By DocGKR:
Uh…M855A1 may be an acceptable GP load for a LMG, as in linked ammo for an M249 SAW, but it is NOT a good load for a carbine like the M4 or a rifle like the M16. Cost for the total Big Army “green” ammo program is FAR in excess of the 32 mil noted in the article. Reported per cartridge cost for M855A1 is triple that for M855, over double that of Mk318, and at least 25% more than that of Mk262 or browntip. Not to mention that M855A1 still cannot be produced on the SCAMP machinery and is instead forced to be built on the old, inefficient, expensive BAM. How exactly is spending hundreds of millions of dollars in tax payer funding for a new lead free combat load anything but fraud, waste, and abuse…especially since the safety certified, JAG approved, combat proven, lead-free COTS browntip is already in the DOD system. How is it possible that it has taken over a decade and hundreds of millions of dollars in tax payer provided funding to produce a new 5.56mm combat load…this is a simple technology with NO moving parts! Keep in mind that the entire 6.8 mm SPC program cost the USG only $5000 in R&D funding to develop. Both SOST and Mk262 cost far less than 1 million. Better yet, in 1940, the prototype P51 Mustang, a sophisticated machine with thousands of parts, successfully flew just 178 days after the initial order had been placed. Now in the 21st century, despite computer modling, the use of CAD/CAM, computerized inventory control and tracking of parts, something as simple as a new combat cartridge has taken over a decade to get introduced. If such glacial procurement had occurred during WWII, the war would have ended before any new weapons were fielded…
There’s more than one way to defeat armor, single shot punch through isn’t the only way. Take for example the AN-94 (Abakan), it fires a two round burst at 1800 rpm, sounds like a single shot it’s so fast. Because the rifle is doing the work, the shots are extremely close in their alignment with one another, so they will hit in the same area effectively. If it were to be firing a 7N24 5.45 load, a tungsten carbide AP round (their version of M995), the first round would damage the armor enough for the second round to penetrate given their proximity. Now the AN-94 isn’t a standard service rife because it’s complex and expensive and requires extra training to take advantage of it’s capabilities, but something similar might be the answer or refining the design. It would of course be a rifle dependent method as that is a unique capability to that rifle and most standard service rifles do not have such capabilities. IV plates are rated to stop A2 hits (I believe up to 3 hits, one inch apart depending on plate).
Still just seems very odd to me that with the problems/complaints of m855, someone would go ahead and decide to essentially ‘sup-it-up’ and make the m855a1.
Armor piercing, while awesome to fantasize about, and even accomplish, is pretty damned low on the need to do scale for small arms.
Agreed on the armor plates. We would be unwise to underestimate a titan of mass production such as China.
As far as A1 goes, I wonder how it will affect parts replacement schedules on LMGs. It’s certain to shorten parts life, but by how much?