I have read on TOS that some people prefer the standard configuration compared to the RIS II configuration due to off balance of the rifle given from the extra rail space. For those of you who have had both which set up do you prefer and why? And to our SMEs, in the field which would do you prefer to carry, if given the option? The reason I am asking is because I am looking to build a 14.5’’ upper and can’t decide between a shorter rail with a FSP or a longer rail w/o FSP.
The vast benefits of the RIS II over the RAS are justification enough to counter any so called “unbalance”. I have both and the balance is fine on both.
I prefer a longer rail, because they handle better (I have long arms) and I prefer FF to none.
A contact in the Ranger Regiment told me that he instructed his platoon that they may only use the Block 2 because they are demonstrably more accurate, though I believe they also use a different barrel?
Sinless, what are the benefits if you don’t mind me asking?
RyanB, yeah I have a mk18 RIS II and I love it, just wasn’t sure how much I would love a 12’’ rail. Still looking for some pros and cons between the two besides the “if SOF use them they have to be good” argument. I would love to see some SME feedback. I would say I have shorter arms (wasn’t blessed to be tall, I am only 5’5) and I don’t grip rifles at the end of the rail like most shooters are doing now. I use a VFG at about halfway between the magwell and the gas block so in my head I feel as if that extra rail space would seem more front heavy but I could been entirely wrong.
I prefer the block ii over the block i / pr
The 7" rail of the isn’t very conducive to a proper grip. I don’t have a fully extend on the ris ii m4a1 but i do need about 8-9" of it tho. The added weight to the front does make it just a little slower when transitioning from target to target but it is nothing that is a deal breaker for me. I also like how it works well to throw a bipod on it and a Leupold CQBSS or some other vp optic and turn it into somewhat of a mid-range precision setup.
We have the standard configuration on our current M4s and they’re fine. I purchased my own RAS II for my second tour in Iraq and it worked out great too. Both were carbine short configurations which worked out really well with a foregrip. When I was assigned to an SMU we had the extended DD rails on our M4s. I did like them, but they were a little front heavy considering my rig had an ATPIAL and Surefire mounted at the end. It’s funny, but professionally I preferred the shorter rails on my issued carbines. Just seemed better balanced to me, but I’m sure it was because how I had them set up. However, the personal rifles I assembled or purchased all have extended rails. But then again I don’t have a lot of shit hanging off my personal rifles. Anyway, I’d opt for a longer/extended rail as it gives you more options/flexibility in terms of accessories and configurations.
I built my own version of the Block II using the RIS II. The carbine length HG of the PR left alot to be desired as far as rail space and proper grip for how I shoot. Using the RIS II also allowed me to utilize a midlength gas system.
The benefits for me:
Allows me to get a light further out, preventing barrel shadow.
Free floats my barrel.
Solid, bombproof rail and attachment system.
More rail space allows more freedom in where attachments are placed.
Aesthetically pleasing color and design.
I’ve had both and used both quite a bit. I have them because I like the style. For all practical purposes, there is better stuff on the market.
I put a little over 10K through the Block II-ish gun and way more than that through the M4gery types.
I shoot squared up, NTCH and I can’t reach far enough to use 12" of rail, putting a light at the end of the rail makes it more nose heavy and it places the light too far out to be easy to use off the left side, etc. I only use non-magnified optics and rarely shoot past 200 yards. My carbine is in and out of trucks and gets used in pretty close quarters 99% of the time. I only need a white light, so I don’t need much rail.
All the training I’ve been through usually only goes out to 200 yards. With a CL barrel and M193 or 855, free floating ain’t gonna do a lot. I have (quite successfully) rang steel out to 500 with an M4gery at a Tigerswan class a few years ago.
The M4gery setup is much handier, snaps onto target quicker and feels lighter/better balanced. I strongly prefer it to the Block II setup for my uses.
The Block II is much better suited to intermediate range and is a compromise in both CQ and intermediate. With an ACOG, the floated M4A1 barrel was surprisingly accurate, but I never use an ACOG. I like the lighter weight of the old style M4 barrel and an Aimpoint.
You just have to figure out what you’re going to use it for and which one you like best. I can tell you that the Block II gets heavy in a hurry and that extra rail space is not worth it to me.
This was my Block II:
This is my current:
Well, I carried a Block 1 during a year spent in the near east and here is my Block 2:
The Block 1 is lighter by far. The Elcan is heavy, but its location doesn’t affect the handling as much as something mounted farther out. The longer rail on the Block 2 is more versatile for me in different positions.
The previous poster nailed it as far as the Block 2 being more geared towards mid-distances. As I see it and and have seen them employed, the job of the Block 1 (close and mid compromise) is now split into two configurations: Mk18 (close) and Block 2 (mid).
Bottom line: get it if you love the design and want the clone. As a GP rifle, you can get a better rifle for the price. The Block 2 cost about what I paid for my SR15 and I know which one I shoot more.
all I know is that I think the mod 0 looks best.
Yeah I was thinking about building a Mod 0 and putting an acog on it and just bypass the entire 14.5 setup. But I guess I will just relax on buying anything since I have just thrown down a large chunk of money on a suppressor.
According to industry guys increase reliability and bolt life. You also get zero retention, increased items life, increased accuracy and accuracy retention.
Lots of goodies come with a FF rail, why do you think every gun made now days is FFed.
Good points, Sinless. When I get a 14.5’’ setup I will definitely get FF. Either the Block 2 or something similar.
Daniel Defense did a limited run of pinned 14.5" carbines with a 12 inch RISII rail this year. Here’s one we mounted an m203 on at Clyde Armory, just because:
A thing of beauty. So KAC drop in rails are definitely a thing of the past?
You can also use DD’s gun builder to order a 14.5" barrel pinned flash hider (mid- or carbine-length gas) upper or complete rifle with the 12" RIS II.
Pretty much. Army is in the process of finding a replacement, and I have heard the Marines are as well.
I remember the talk about the individual carbine competition but I read on an HK forum that it was decided that none of the weapons provided were good enough to replace the M4. But don’t quote me on it just going on memory.
Dual path strategy.
IC on one end, PiP on the other. None of the entrants of the IC met the required 3,592MRBS(6/21000) and the M4 showcased 1,691MRBS(12/21000) so the IC concluded with no winners. Now that FNH is making M4A1’s the army is getting them for $650 each.
The PiP is focusing on fleeting the M4A1 to phase out the M4, get an ambi safety, and currently replacing the KAC ARS with something better and cheaper.
I carry a M4A1 at work with the KAC 7" rail on it. I have a duplicate upper at home to train on but much prefer my other rifles, all BCM uppers (16" w Centurion 12" rail, it’s longer than I really need and a bit heavy but it looks cool…) (14.5" w a DD Omega 9" rail) and (a 11.5 w a Centurion 10" rail).
For me the sweet spot is a 9-10" rail. I’m a bit cramped on my work gun and the extra 2-3" really makes the rifle handle much better for me. I only run a VFG as far out as I can ge it and still activate my light with my thumb and a light at 10:30, if I had to get a DBAL on there a 7" rail would be even more cramped for me. It’s workable but…
I think the ideal solution for an issued gun with a fixed FSB would be some sort of extended cutout rail like the DD 12" or one of Centurions rails that is extended on the sides and bottom.