So looking at ammo choices for an 18" M1A, it occurs to me that I have never heard guys claim that 7.62 x 61 ball or 30-06 ball was ineffective. So although an expanding bullet would be best, I like to have lots of extra mags loaded with ball. What kind of performance can realistically be expected when a BG is hit with 7.62 x 51 173 gr. Match ball?
Actually, a lot of folks have complained about less than rapid incapacitation effects with M80 ball fired from the M14–just ask Pat Rogers about his personal experience in Viet Nam using the M14…
500grains,
Nothing short of 20mm HE is 100%.
The US Military was so pleased with the performance of .30 cal M2 ball in WW2 that it forced the NATO members to adopt, the almost identical in performance, 7.62 x 51 cartridge as the standard round for rifles and machineguns in that organization.
The 7.62 173gr Match cartridge uses the same bullet as the M1 ball cartridge, that the US Army adoped between WW1 and WW2, to extend the maximum range of their .30 cal machineguns. It is as effective as .30 M2 ball or 7.62 M80 ball at realistc rifle engagement distances. With 7.62 173gr Match you get the ability to hit harder at the longer distances along with less wind deflection and a flatter trajectory.
I feel no inadequacy while holding an M1 Garand fully loaded with .30 M2 Ball. When loaded with .30 M2 Armor Piercing, I get that same thrill going up my leg that Chris Matthews said he got when listening to Barack Obama’s speech.
In other words…Don’t worry about it
200RNL, thank you.
DOCGKR, is there an internet write-up of Mr. Rogers experience with the M14? Thanks.
Pat most recently wrote about this at LF:
“When i enlisted i was told the M14 was an absolute one shot death dealing mother fucker. Design deficiencies aside, M80 ball is no winner either–as i found out on an overcast June day when i put 6 rounds into the chest of a mortarman at bad breath distance- with minimal effect.”
Good to know. Thanks. I suppose expanding for BG and ball for engine blocks.
Good point. That is one of a many great Pat stories.
“I suppose expanding for BG and ball for engine blocks.”
Why? If you want to get into engine blocks, you need to use AP rounds. Ball is good training ammo and fine for MG’s where you are going to get a lot of hits on target, otherwise, I’d prefer a fragmenting round for unobstructed soft tissue and barrier blind loads for most other purposes.
I love 150 Grain Ballistic Tips. I worked up a great load with these 15 years ago and I still have the data.
From where would you acquire M118 that you could use?
Why not just obtain Hornady 155 grn TAP?
Check this out: http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19878
As to shooting engine blocks . . . shooting the driver has more immediate results.
I have 2K rounds of it in the basement.
Why not just obtain Hornady 155 grn TAP?
Definitely a better choice.
You are a lucky man.
[QUOTE=500grains;627127]I have 2K rounds of it in the basement.
My dad once shot a south-bound Chinese soldier 8 times with his M1, he noted that he could see the fluff from his quilted coat flying out of his back when the bullets went through him, he didn’t slow down at all immediately.
Ammo was the old 30-06 black tip AP.
I also noted that ball ammo is illegal in every state that I have looked up the hunting regs for when it comes to deer hunting. This is called a clue.
You are right about that. And in many states the .223 is also verboten for deer hunting (example: Wyoming).
Thanks for the story about your dad. I bet that incident gave him a fright.
M1A / M14 - Doesn’t ball work pretty well?
One M1-A, one FMJ @ 220yds into one nutria ribcage. The varmint stopped momentarily, made a direction change then headed back in the original direction of travel. We walked up to it, dropped a 9mm 115 Cor-Bon into the head and then discussed terminal ballistics. The round, Aussie AFF88, went straight through with minimal damage.
That being said I don’t want to get hit by one and there are thousands of folks that wish they hadn’t been hit by one.
Keith
The round, Aussie AFF88, went straight through with minimal damage.
As would be expected of any FMJ and a small animal.
A 500gr FMJ/solid from a .458 Winchester Magnum probably would
have produced similar results and that load is used to hunt Elephant.
Regardless of the ballistics, I sure as heck wouldn’t want to be hit by any roundl fired from the M14 or any other weapon for that matter.
I know a fellow who used to work for the Zimbabwe Parks department. On two different occasions, hunters shot elephants that had been previously wounded but had fully recovered. One elephant had 11 AK47 bullets in its chest. The other had 4 x .458 500 grain FMJs in its chest. An elephant’s lungs are attached to its ribcage so they do not collapse when punctured. So unless an artery is hit, a lung shot is not necessarily fatal (in an elephant).
An elephant’s lungs are attached to its ribcage so they do not collapse when punctured. So unless an artery is hit, a lung shot is not necessarily fatal (in an elephant).
Because of an elephant’s massive size, a projectile the size of a 7.62 or even a .458 500 gr bullet is comparable to a human adult being shot with half of a small finishing nail. Excluding the lung shot example you cite or a brain shot, whether a bullet in the elephant or finishing nail in the human, a hit in a vital area is needed to cause incapacitation and even then, it will take alot of time to take effect.
That’s why hunters make brain shots on elephants to achieve rapid incapacitation. The FMJ/solid is the best tool for that job.