Can anyone provide a guide or link to the numerous prefixes and suffixes associated with M193 ammo? XM193; XM193PD; 193F; AF; CB; etc.
Thanks
All of the Federal XM193 is the same. The suffix just denotes what type of packaging it comes in.
Does this even apply to the loose packed stuff? I have heard that some loose packed xm855 is floor sweepings, but I don’t know if that applies to xm193.
IIRC, the loose rounds boxes are “BK” suffix.
This is what I have been told.
I’d love to kill the tard who started this floor sweeping myth/term.
Been a while, but I distinctly remember hearing many times that XM193 PD were essentially XM193 rejects. This was usually apparent when one compared the rounds, with the PD having notably more visible flaws (dents, split necks, severe discoloring, etc).
I know PD is sold in bulk while XM is usually boxed, but I think there is some method to that madness, so to speak. Could be wrong on some level, though.
IIRC any “X” in front of the M193 means something about the round, didn’t pass the Military’s requirements (No bullet sealant, as an example, or anything else not IAW the requirements) is rejected by the inspectors, re-branded, and sold on the civilian market as XM193(C,D,F, etc…).
From http://www.federalpremium.com/resources/xm193.aspx
• XM193 product is first run, first quality product manufactured at Lake City Army Ammunition Plant for Federal Cartridge and is made to Federal specifications typical for commercial ammunition.
• All XM193 product is the same regardless of the sku or part number. (ie. XM193C is the same as XM193F, XM193CBP and etc…) The only difference is the package configuration.
No. Do you think the military is buying enough M193 that they would have tens of millions (or hundreds of millions) of reject rounds to sell? XM193 is loaded for the commercial market. M193 has not even been the standard mil round for how many years?
Loose pack stuff is going to look worse because its been shipped all over the country with the rounds banging into each other, handled by gorillas and monkeys, tossed around, kicked, stepped on, and whatever else happened to stuff in transit. So yes you are going to see more damaged rounds with loose pack ammo but its usually cheaper as it takes much less time to pack, and uses less packing materials.
Makes sense to have commercially produced XM19) for the civilian market. I stand corrected.
While this appears to be true based upon the Federal link provided alone, there is little doubt that most still view boxed XM193 as military reject ammo for whatever reason. The rumors have been swirling for some time, and to compound the issue it’s simply not labeled M193.
In fact there are many that say it’s junk and at least partially attribute that assessment to it’s “questionable” origins.
Simple logic would tell someone there is no way Federal could sell so much, and it be rejects. Besides M193 has not been standard ammo in many years. If they are producing that many rejects with M193 then they have to be in the billions of reject rounds with M855. Id be curious but I doubt the military buys hardly any M193 anymore. Definately not even close enough numbers to support the idea XM193 reject rounds.
Its labeled XM193 because no it does not meet military spec. That doesn’t mean its reject rounds.
I think you hear a lot of bad stories about XM193 because so many people are using it the shear odds are you’ll hear more crap. Ive heard anything bad about the Speer M193 I just bought a couple weeks ago but Ive only seen it sold at one place when Fed XM193 is all over the place both in person, and online. You can’t throw a rock in the ammo world without hitting a box of the stuff…
So then not spec in this case means no longer issued as opposed to flawed in some way?
I know it’s not issued anymore of course, but the implications have been beyond that from what I have seen over the years. They seem to infer that it is imperfect, surplus ammo.
Edit: Never mind, the Federal link seems to speak for itself. Interesting information.
It just means not every batch of XM193 would meet military M193 standards. Military standards are actually pretty harsh. Could be slightly too much neck sealant, and they would DQ the entire lot. Most of this stuff would have zero bearing on civilian shooters.
But yes M193 has not been the standard mil round for many years. M855 is, and has been for a long time. The only reason I could see M193 still being purchased is some Guard units or something that still might have some M16A1’s laying around but those supply numbers would in no way provide for XM193 being reject rounds from mil contracts.
The biggest difference I can think of to mark it XM193 is the lack of use of the specific low-flash powder the military requires. Back in the day when you could buy military surplus ammo, it usually had to be “de-milled” which mostly meant removing the military powder and replacing it with powder common to the civilian market.
Other than that, I find it hard to believe that LC would set up any of there machines to make ammo that’s not military spec, it would be more work. But if the powder is not .mil grade, then you instantly have non mil-spec ammo.
I have read when starting up a production run, the first so many rounds can be pulled as part as a QA issue, whether there is an issue or not.
A lot of times the “reject” is due to too little or too much sealant on the bullet neck. This is really a non-issue for non military usage.
A few years ago, there was a production run of some ridiculous amount of M193 ( I want to say it was 120 million rounds) that was supposed to fill a USAF order. The order was allegedly cancelled while it was being filled due to the USAF re-barreling it’s 1/12 guns to 1/7. These rounds instantly became “Rejects” so they could be sold. I do not have any links to confirm this, as I am going from memory.
What I have a really hard time believing is that any manufacture would sell off “floor sweepings” . In today’s litigation crazy world, one good law suit would offset any profits made from selling questionable ammunition by a large margin.
Thank you.