As I posted in Todd’s thread, I think the front of the slide notch was colliding with the slide lock on the last round of the magazine. The slide lock in his pictures looks like it has wear on the front (instead of the back).
Also, there is a couple of other reports of this happening so S&W is aware of the issue, which I think they fixed a long time ago. That said, a few failures isn’t a big deal especially with S&W going WAAAAAY beyond and sending out parts as needed.
It’s certainly something us M&P owners need to watch but I’m not ready to throw the baby out with the bath water just yet.
My collection is a place were M&P’s, Glocks, and HK’s can hang out with no issues at all.
I have to agree with you 100%. Switching the gun out just because it is the latest and greatest is not an intelligent choice.
Lots of folks don’t like the G21 because of the size but I have little hands and without tooting my own horn I can handle the weapon very well. 25K rounds through my duty and 12K thorugh my personal. I take good care of them and PM them regularly.
One of my best buddies and S&W fans sold his G21 and got one. I don’t think he is as happy either. He likes it but its not as proven as the G21 in my opinion. I always T&E it myself and put it through the wringer. I know I am a die hard Glock fan but our entire department including swat are 100% Glock. About 350+ guns 9, 40 and 45, your choice. You can carry what you want, if you buy it, but even the die hard 1911, Sig and HK fans have stayed with the Glocks. We have a very extensive shooting program in the academy and on the street plenty of range time for those that want it.
New Mexico State Police just traded all of their G31’s in .357 for the new M&P in .357. The head armorer and range officer has always loved Smith autos. They stated that they had problems with the G31. Mostly with the slide rails. But Glock was fixing any problems so why switch? If it is a caliber problem and the gun is being beaten to death just go to 40 or 45.
I hope they don’t regret their choice. They also bought a lot of the new M&P15’s. I have heard that their are problems with them also.
every firearm has had teething problems when they are first produced. glocks included, now in version 3 for some reasons.
Some alterations were to internal parts to enhance reliability but about 90% were cosmetic to enhance grip, light attachment, etc.
Most owners of the original Gen 1’s still have them and they are running after decades of use.
I know all weapons do not start out perfect and many years of trial and error are required to get them to their best but I am just going along with the statement that you shouldn’t leap before you look.
I personally would not carry an unproven gun into combat or on duty and I would not want to be the guinea pig PD that might have to pay the price for their inability to wait or one individuals personal opinion of what should be carried because he liked the old S&W autos.
Really
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I dont know, if I got 20,000+ rounds usage out of a $500 polymer framed pistol I’d probably be quite happy.
Stuff DOES wear out when you use it.
I agree that is a pretty good amount of rounds but that is a strange place for a crack. I’m not suprised S&W replaced it for nothing.
It shouldn’t be just for M&P owners. Every time I detail strip anyone of my guns they get a good once over. I even have a jewelers loop to inspect small parts and pins for hairline cracks. It probably adds five minutes to the cleaning time but it is really cheap insurance against the alternative.
One of the great things about competitive shooting is that the good guys like Todd can torture test a gun in a very short time. Most of the top shooters will shoot 50,000+ rounds a year. If a gun design has a flaw they will find it pretty quickly.
Out of curioiusity … Has S&W specified a factory stated service life (round count wise) for the M&P pistols? If so, what is it?
S&W reps have reported “insane” round counts on eval guns sent to PDs.
I think a slide failure at 20K is going to prove to be the exception rather than the rule.
I noticed another slide failure exactly like this (except a .40) on the MP pistol forums. I wonder if these were early guns? Maybe the way those grooves and notches are machined may have been revised.
Not to stray off topic, but I’ve seen bad machining and slide failures in Glocks. The local shop I worked at for a time had about 2 dozen guns with improperly machined slides. The little lug on the forward end of the slide that holds the recoil spring had a little notch in it. It was definately a wayward cutter or something because they were exactly the same on all the guns that broke, and all the ones we sent back.
I also saw some one crack a Glock 17 slide right under the ejection port.
I guess the points I’m trying to make are that sometimes little errors in the manufacturing process that go unnoticed can lead to problems. And when you use something hard, it will eventually wear out or break.
As the population of M&Ps increases and some see higher round counts, we will probably see other issues crop up. But I think we should be glad there are early adopters and hard users out there. They find the weaknesses and shortcomings, and usually develop the fixes and work arounds.
To add to that, You can also just replace the slide rails on the frame of the M&P when they are worn out. so you can just keep going and going on that same pistol frame for a VERY long time.
I’m thinking it’s breaking there because the slide is a little weakened there because of the slide stop notch cut in the slide.
That and the slide is likely tilting to the right during firing causing stress on that slide of the slide as it’s pulling upward/away from the locking block. I’m sure S&W will do something to make it stronger there like lengthening the rails on the locking block and/or making the slide stop notch smaller from front to back.
I do not think the barrel had anything to do with this. I have seen a couple of these slides cracked in the same place.
I have a few M&P’s with huge round counts with no trouble. Every gun has a bad exapmle from time to time. God, I mean glock has been around forever and you still see a major flaw every now and then.
I would not let this stop you.
CHECK 360 David
I wish Smith & Wesson would replace his whole gun so they could get ahold of the that gun as a unit. It would be interesting to keep shooting it to see how the crack progresses (if it does at all) and when (if) it ever affects how the gun functions. For all we know, it could go indefinitely as it is and never cause a problem in terms of how it functions.
I got a call today from a buddy asking me “why all the S&W hate?” I want to make it clear that I have nothing against the M&P and actually think Smith has done a real turn-around. I think the M&P is probably the best autoloader Smith has ever built and some of it’s features have raised the proverbial bar.
I posted this pic for information only since it was already up on another forum. That’s all, no M&P bashing intended…
Since you probably have a better understanding of the M&P internals than most, do you have an educated guess as to what did cause the crack? Also I would be curious to hear the respective round counts on the guns with cracked slides that you have seen, if you know the round counts.
Thanks.
Edited to add:
GOTM4, missed your post on the suspected cause the first time. Sounds logical, enough.
I agree with David. This whole rush to the latest and greatest (and the corresponding, "oh, that gun is so last week) is silly.
Unless GOD himself makes the weapon, it will break. The simple truth is that if it is made by man, it will break.
We can go over to GT and look at countless threads where Glock’s have gone down for all kinds of things. I do not fault Glock for cracked slides as I would not fault S&W. It happens.
I also do not see any bandwagon in regards to S&W M&P. It is a quality weapon and gives shooters another option. If people are happy with their Glocks, then they should keep them. If they are not happy with them (like me), then they should try an M&P.
C4