M&P owners- How important is a tactile trigger reset to you?

Hi all,

So Scott and I were at the range testing our reset assist mechanism for the M&P 9/.40/.357 pistols today. We developed the device in response to a few comments about the lack of tactile trigger reset in the M&P platform. We were also doing a video narrative on the project for documentation purposes (I think Scott is going to upload a copy to youtube).

At the end of the day it got me thinking, is there really a market for such a part? How important is the sensation or “click” of trigger reset to the individual shooter?
I wanted to pose the question to you- the owners en-masse to find out if the lack of tactile reset is really an issue of concern, or if it is only in my imagination. I would hate to allocate our resources into an inventory of parts that will not sell.

Please let me know what you think!

-Randy.

i prefer the glock trigger over the M&P because of the stout tactile reset. given the glocks half cock position ie-when the striker is fully cocked it is actually applying pressure to your finger through the trigger, vs the M&P’s single action setup, i’m not really sure you could get the same effect in the M&P…

anyway, if you could, i think it would bring some glock shooters over to the M&P camp.

Humans respond quicker to auditory stimulus. I would say that it is very important.

I just wanted to add or rather clarify my position. For the sake of argument, I want the tactile sensation and audible click to be present. I think for a mechanical fire control system such as the M&P/ Glock/ 1911 there is some impact between parts that is generating the audible recognition. The impacting parts also generate some vibration or resonance through the frame which can be detected.

A rather long way of saying that I want both to be markedly detectable.

To the other end, I also believe that if you are running the trigger at speed, you probably won’t be able to detect the reset point because your trigger finger is already slightly forward of the reset point as the slide goes to battery. That said, if I am doing precision shooting and am trying to slow down between shots, the sensation or sound of reset gives me a good reference point of when to take up any slack.

i doubt you’d hear it in a firefight. or even just at the range with earpro on. but the tactile click is definitely important.

If you get into a shootout with your firearm, auditory exclusion from your fight/flight response won’t allow you to hear an audible reset.

audible, not really, tactile, yes.

We were talking about this at class over the weekend. I really prefer the tactile feedback of most other guns. As much as I love the M&P I feel they really did wrong with this.

The amusing thing is that Mr. Hackathorn told us that Smith did this intentionally after consulting with some police officers. :confused:

I have seriously considered purchasing an M&P 9/45 to carry on duty.
One of the reasons that have prevented me from switching is the sloppy trigger pull/ reset and the auditory/tactile click. Having a deparment issued Glock 17, I have grown accustomed to the click you are referring to. As skyugo mentioned, if the auditory/tactile is detectable I would transfer over to the M&P.

It is noticeable that is for sure. Although I didn’t realize what was wrong originally I knew something was off. I just wasn’t experienced enough to identify it myself. LOL.

I could care less about it clicking. I would like to have it reset just a hair more forceful than it does with the DCAEK installed.

I was in desire of more of a tactile reset so I tweeked my trigger bar and that helped a bit. I def understand that ‘in the heat’ you won’t really hear the reset but you will hear it when you train and the idea is that ‘in the heat’ you will resort to your training. If you were to offer a product that offered a respectable increase in reset, I would be interested.

I went back to Glock’s even after getting pretty darn good at doing trigger jobs on the M&P’s mostly do to the weak reset (that and striker breakages and extractor headaches), their triggers can be made to rival 1911’s fairly easily with the right sear reshape (no disrespect meant, but even better than what most guys get with your drop-in stuff), thing is, even with bending the trigger-bar inward towards the sear I was only able to get the reset the smallest amount better… like has been said I’m of the opinion that the M&P’s are more of a single-action than a safe-action/DAO like a Glock (on a side note I have no idea how they are allowed in and considered fair up against Glock’s and DAO’s in SSP in IDPA, especially when XD’s are stuck in ESP but that’s another story for another day), so I don’t see how it could be done without adding a gizmo of some sort.
IMO, it’s a short-stroke/trigger-freeze thing… On a Glock the trigger resets itself for you, you feel it without any doubt, and as long as you leave your finger there you’re prepped for your next shot. On M&P’s I end up short-stroking them often, and other times keeping the trigger prepped on them without letting off and giving them a jerk or weird pull on tough shots can be tricky… their triggers can be made to break beautifully but the reset is just another story, for guys like myself it’s annoying…
It’s feel-thing, I could care less about hearing a click or not, if you can feel it you don’t need to hear it.

IMO, if you can fix it, they will come.

That IS AMUSING!!! But he is one of our oracles.

I put 2400 rds through a M&P Pro 9 - coming from many years of near exclusive Glock shooting. I thought the reset might be a big deal but after a couple boxes of ammo, for the next 2K plus - vast majority fired in various speed oriented drills, I never had a problem with it.

I’d prefer a strong reset a la Glock (Gen 4 is extremely strong IMO) but if the reset is short, whether I feel it or not is probably not that big a deal t me. When I’m on a timer or in a match, I’m focused on targets and sights and I’m not aware of catching my Glock reset even as strong as it is.

So sometimes what I want and what I really need are not the exactly the same. I think short is functionally an advantage. Feeling it in the heat of competition (speaking for myself) a luxury.

It’s nice to have, but not really a necessity for me. Having come from a Glock, where the reset sounds like someone clicking their fingers, the reset on the M&P is a lot less audible (even with the DCAEK installed), but still tactile.

The reset on the M&P, although much weaker than the Glock, has not been a problem for me. I have no interest in hearing a click to define reset because, as stated earlier, I don’t believe that you would be able to hear it when it mattered. I wouldn’t mind a tad more tactile input though.

-TS

My 2 cents:

I think a lot of the complaints about reset exist because of Glock shooters. There are a lot of people out there who have cut their pistol shooting teeth on the Glock trigger and they’ve come to define that trigger as the trigger and every other gun they pick up gets compared to it. Thus they pick up a gun and try the trigger and immediately get that baby-eating-strained-peas yuk face because Lois, this is NOT my batman glass…erm…Glock.

Because of that, I think complaints about reset are somewhat overblown. Few other pistols on the market have the sproingy, ultra-clicky reset of a Glock, but that doesn’t seem to get brought up much either because a lot of people have limited experience with other handguns or because they just don’t think about those pistols in comparison to a Glock like they do with the M&P. I also think that the reset complaints get to be a bit groupthinky at times…as in somebody mentions it and it gets parroted around and around and around until I’m hearing in the gunstore trying to buy an M&P and I’m hearing word for word comments I read in a thread on ARFCOM a couple of days before.

…now that’s not to say that people are wrong for having trigger preferences. If they have done most of their learning on a Glock trigger and want to keep that Glock feel because that’s what they are used to, it’s fine by me. I just don’t think it should be morphed into a requirement that every trigger on the planet must feel like a Glock trigger or the gun isn’t suitable for use.

Now all of that being said:

How important is the sensation or audible “click” of trigger reset to the individual shooter?

If the person learned to shoot on a Glock…and by “learned to shoot” I mean someone who has done most of their formal training on a Glock…then that sproingy, super-clicky reset is probably going to be very important to them.

If they have been shooting other guns, it probably won’t be as important to them, although they may still welcome it.

Personally speaking, I learned to reset the M&P trigger the same way I learned to reset the Glock trigger…with dryfire practice at home. With a stock M&P and the trademark anemic reset of a stock TRS I can still manipulate the trigger FAR faster than I can actually intelligently direct the bullets into a target. The M&P’s reset, even on a stock gun, isn’t an obstacle for me. As long as the reset is reasonably fast, I can find the reset point and run with it. I’ve got 6 M&P’s right now and 5 different trigger configurations on those M&P’s currently that range from bone stock to a full custom trigger job to Apex’d guns. Some have a more tactile reset than others. All save two have Massachussetts TRS in them because I like a little more resistance in the takeup and because it makes the trigger reset faster, making a short-stroke very unlikely even if I’m moving my trigger finger at barely-on-the-berm speed.

Having owned and shot M&P’s for years, I see no compelling need for such an item.

But:

is there really a market for such a part?

Probably. While there is no compelling need for such a device, many M&P owners may prefer the feel of a sproingy, ultra-clicky reset. Assuming the device is priced reasonably and that it’s relatively easy to install, you might find a market among them. You may also find a market among those who pine for the feel of a Glock trigger when they shoot an M&P. I’ve talked with several individuals who love everything about the M&P better than their Glock except the trigger reset. If they could spend 30-50 bucks and 15 minutes fixing that, they’d probably be very happy individuals. If it costs much more than that or has installation that would test the patience of Job, it’s unlikely you’ll sell many.

If you stick to more or less the model you’ve established with your other parts, you’ll probably sell a fair number of them…at least until S&W figures out what you’re doing and rips off the idea. :smiley:

I would love to see an audible tactile reset…i have a sear that a local machinist produces in my m&p and it makes a nice click noise but still not that of a glock

More like 5 by the looks of it…

I’d be very interested…I have DCAEK’s in both of my M&P’s and would welcome a stronger reset…I think it would be a huge improvement…

P.S. I’d be willing to test them for you…:smiley: