So I have been looking over the M&P handguns for a while now. I truly wanted to give them a fair shake. However, after what I saw yesterday… there is no reason for me to own one in their current configuration.
We put on a 3-gun on sunday, and I was directly behind every competitor every step of the way to help them engage the proper targets and ensure everyone was safe.
In this capacity, I got to clearly see malfunctions. There were 2 shooters using M&P’s… and both had several malfunctions. Several FTF and FTE each. I’m not sure what ammo they were shooting, but I know other shooters with XD’s, XDM’s, and Glocks were shooting the same ammo.
Very lackluster performance. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen it, and heard about issues either. As an XDM shooter, there isn’t really anything that I like about the M&P’s after seeing a display like I saw yesterday. Everything from the goofy little take-down tool to the little wire that has to be moved to get the damn thing apart. The only thing I like about them is that they seem to fit into the same crossbreed holster as my XDM.
I had nearly made up my mind that I wouldn’t own one… but everything I’ve experienced to date combined with the piss poor functioning I saw convinced me that there is nothing in that handgun that the XDM doesn’t have… and more.
There were 6-8 XD’s and XDM’s at the shoot… and none malfunctioned one time. Hell… I put over 8000rnds through mine without cleaning it before it malfunctioned… and the only malfunction is that the slide wouldn’t stay back on an empty mag sometimes.
S&W… you should head back to the drawing board. Just the way the handgun is taken apart should be a clue that the design is inferior.
You do know you don’t have to use the little wire or takedown tool if you don’t want, those were added intentionally due to complaints about other designs.
Without knowing what ammo was used and/or what specifically induced the malfunctions you can’t condemn the gun.
My buddy has 2 M&Ps and was having repeated issue with locking back with rounds still in the mag. I shot it and had no problem, it was shooter induced.
My dept has random feeding/ejection/round stuck in the barrel/etc issues with our Sigs - not due to any fault of the gun, its the crappy ammo they feed them. Frangible bullets broken in half, mangled case mouth, bad primers, etc.
The M&P is fairly well proven at this point, they still run into a few issue occasionally but certainly not an inferior design.
I believe the ammo was federal 115gr load. Other handguns seemed to eat it just fine. When compared side-by-side to an XDM… there is nothing the M&P does better. Lack of a grip safety and harder to take down. I dislike the trigger safety. It feels “cheap.”
They are accurate, but so are XDM’s.
Go ahead and flame away. I truly don’t mind. This makes about the 6th M&P I’ve seen having malfunctions. At this point, there is no way in hell that anyone will convince me that all instances were the shooter or the ammo or some cosmic unforeseen force. I’ll believe what I’ve seen over what I read on a forum. Obviously if I see the next 20 I encounter running like a sewing machine… I’ll modify my opinion. Until then… never will I recommend them to anyone.
The only ‘issues’ I’ve had with my M&P’s are not being as accurate as I’d like them to be.
I have had more issues (roll pin breaking, two times, excluding the awkward ergonomics of the gun) with the one XD I own than the four M&P’s I have in circulation. Leatham has had great luck with the XD, me, not so much.
ETA: M&P’s (in my experience) have proven to be extremely reliable.
I have seen quite a few newer M&P’s have issues with the sights coming off.
That being said, I just picked up an XDm 9 4.5, and I fucking hate it. It seems to be reliable, and its VERY accurate, but that’s the only good things I have to say about it. I wouldn’t call it a shitty gun, but it just doesn’t work for me.
Care to be more specific? I have 3… no malfunctions in a combined round count of 15,000rnds between the 3 of them. One is coming up on 11,000… another past 3,000… and the other is my carry gun with around 1000.
Two of my employees carry xdm’s. No problems with either of theirs. My father has one. 2 of my fathers friends have them. One of their sons has one. I could go on… but essentially I know about 15 people that I shoot with regularly that have XDM’s and I have not heard or witnessed a single issue with any of them.
They run clean.
They run dirty.
They run crappy steel cased ammo.
They run top end brass and nickel plated ammo.
They run wet.
They run dry.
The guys I saw running the jam-O-matic M&P’s were not limp wristing, and one of them hits every 3-gun within 200 miles of him. He sure as hell knows what he’s doing and isn’t running cheap ammo. I’m thinking there was a chase-cam going when it was going on. I’ll see if I can find out and post video if there was.
Not sure if there would be any point to it however. It’s pretty clear that minds are closed tight on this topic. I’m telling you I’ve seen more M&P’s malfunctioning than I’ve seen run right, but obviously I must not have actually saw what I’ve seen.
Eh. I’m not close minded. I’d like to see the footage regardless.
In regards to XDMs sucking I saw…
One blow the magazine out the bottom. Not kb style.
One that wouldn’t hold the magazine in because the catch was out of spec.
One who shot it’s own sights off.
One where the grip safety was stuck and wouldn’t compress.
One where the trigger cracked.
One where the finish wasn’t applied correctly that rusted really bad.
One that for whatever reason wouldn’t fit in any holster. Ever.
One that wouldn’t stop failing to eject, failing to fire, or failing to extract.
However…
I’ve also seen…
One that was 1’’ accurate at 25m.
One that ran beautifully when suppressed.
One with one of the nicest out of the box triggers I’ve felt on a pistol.
One that was ultra reliable. (Friend has one with 5k on it. Not cleaned yet.)
That’s about it.
I’ve only seen about 20 of 'em shot. Mostly at the range. And only knew the owners of 2 of 'em.
You don’t know for sure if they were using factory or reloads. And I also figure you don’t know for sure if they modified their guns at all. That info is pretty important when one is trying to draw a conclusion about weapon reliability.
In the absence of actual objective data, we all tend to fall back to basing our decisions on anecdotes, I suppose.
For MY anecdotal evidence, I’ve been satisfied with the cycling performance of MY M&P. OTOH, my buddy shooting next to me at a 3 day pistol course 10 days ago had nothing but problems with his XDm. Cycling, FTE, accuracy. Based on THAT anecdote, I conclude that XDm’s are terrible handguns and I’d never buy one.
You know, it’s your choice. You appear very happy with your XDM’s so I say go for it. Now, I run M&P’s and I haven’t had any of the issues that you are describing. My guns run well and I like the platform. I’m not gonna get into the whole flaming or bashing deal.
I’m glad you found a pistol that works well for you, so stick with it!
First, it is generally not a good idea to use a statistic sampling of TWO pistols to judge any brand (because if this was the case, I would never own a product from Springfield, Glock, HK, SIG, WC, etc).
Second, the FTE is more than likely because they have the old extractor in it. About 6 months ago, S&W updated the extractor to better work with shallow rimmed ammo (like Winchester). So that is my guess as to what is going on.
Very lackluster performance. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen it, and heard about issues either. As an XDM shooter, there isn’t really anything that I like about the M&P’s after seeing a display like I saw yesterday. Everything from the goofy little take-down tool to the little wire that has to be moved to get the damn thing apart. The only thing I like about them is that they seem to fit into the same crossbreed holster as my XDM.
You are kind of showing your ignorance on the gun. It isn’t good to “critique” things you don’t understand. The “take down tool” isn’t really a tool at all. In fact, you don’t use it.
The “wire” as you call it doesn’t need to be used either. You can field strip an M&P just like you would a Glock (by throwing the take down lever and pulling the trigger).
I had nearly made up my mind that I wouldn’t own one… but everything I’ve experienced to date combined with the piss poor functioning I saw convinced me that there is nothing in that handgun that the XDM doesn’t have… and more.
Are you aware that the XD is commonly referred to as the “bubba” gun by the best firearms instructors in the country? Or the fact that major State and Federal LE write prerequisites SPECIFICALLY to exclude the XD so it cannot be submitted to trials???
The M&P has won more US and International LE firearms contracts than XD ever thought about. Clue!
After suffixing a first post with “Flame away,” accusing members of having closed minds for simply having had different experiences than yours…that just screams “class act.”
We don’t need any new “brand-of-gun” threads so badly that any posted by a member visibly primed for a shitfight should stay open.
