So I got my VTAC M&P with the APEX FSS trigger kit installed and went straight to the range.
The gun will only fire competition ammo. All Wolf and reloads would not work. I took the gun to a certified S&W gunsmith shop and the gun told me the ‘striker spring’ was a competition one (do all VTAC M&P come with those? Cus I sure did not change it). He had the stock M&P striker spring so I bought one and had it installed.
This is the old spring that came with the gun, stock.
Result is much better :(. Out of 100 rounds of range reload and 100 rounds of wolf, these are the only ones that did not fire. NOTE I purchased some expensive competition ammo mix of hornady, winchester, and remmington, all fired 100% without a hiccup.
Is it just me or are the mark the striker left on the primer way smaller than usual. I wish I brought my other M&P so I can compare.
Before I had the Apex fss trigger kit installed, this gun runs on absolutely everything. I contacted APEX and asked them if ammo picky is a common problem and their answer was “no.” It is not too late (5pm) to go back to the store or contact APEX again.
Does anyone have a similar problem? If so please help. If this is going to be a permanent thing, I will uninstall the trigger and just put the Dcaek kit in like my other M&P which is 100% with 3500 round down the barrel. I want my gun to run on anything especially now that ammo price is sky rocketing like crazy. To me, more ammo = more practice = more fun. I honestly do NOT do competitions and anything serious.
Some more picture if it helps anything.
Really frustrated right now. Was really looking forward to this.
Sorry to hear you are having issues. Try swapping out the striker block plunger and replace it with your factory version and let me know if this resolves the issue. It may be that the striker block plunger is not clearing the channel in time due to a tolerance issue with our striker block. We QC every batch, but that doesn’t mean that an out of spec one can’t slip through the cracks.
If you are using the factory striker spring, it should go bang with any factory ammunition. Since not all reloads are created (or manufactured) equal, I cannot rule out the possibility of high primers being the problem.
I am at the shop now, so you can always call me…
PM on the way…
I have seen alot of this with the apex parts. The parts don’t work on all guns. The guns are to loose fit to drop in parts. I have redone alot of them due to striker hitting the plunger and sucking some of the energy out of the striker. alot of them were domed to much thus reducing thier abilty to clear away for a clean pass of the stiker. These guns to be reliable enough to trust your life with need to be fit and checked. No two of my trigger jobs are dead on the same. Very very close but loose tolerances have to be taken into account and part fit accordingly.
I agree that there is wild tolerance variation. That is why the striker blocks have change dimensions over the past year. The dome contour, blocking surface height have all been altered to compensate for the tolerance stack between slide and frame, as well as the variance in the striker block lifter on the trigger bar.
There are some guns where the tolerance stack is simply on the edge. As Mr. Bowie has said, every gun is different. The guns should be tested before going into service, and inspected regularly.
We are even looking at rates of wear between slide and frame and how that affects the system as well as our parts.
I do not take my parts design lightly as I know that there are many who are going into harms way with pistols equipped with our parts.
If we find that there is an issue we try our best to identify the problem and make an immediate design change.
Our parts are evolving. This is true with the factory as well.
I am shipping the gun to APEX on Monday. Got real busy these couple of days.
I did talk to Randy on the phone. Hes was friendly and hopeful. We tried a couple of thing but in the end he thinks the trigger might need some modification.
BTW, a big thumbs up to Randy and APEX. Not only was he extremely fast at responding to my problem and worked with me during his after hours, hes also covering the return shipping.
I dont do competitions at all so I want my gun to run on pretty much anything I throw in there. Once I have the gun back and put some more ‘shitty’ quality ammo through it, I will update this thread again.
Not enough good things can be said about companies that behave that way. I will go out of my way at any chance I get to send companies like that more business.
To the best of my knowledge, S&W does NOT make a competition striker spring. So the one in your gun is standard.
With mass produced polymer guns, there will be extreme highs and lows in tolerances. About 90-95% of the time Apex parts simply drop in with NO modifications needed. With any firearm though, it is ALWAYS a good idea run a couple hundred rounds through the gun before trusting it.
[QUOTE=Randy Lee;1171032]I agree that there is wild tolerance variation. That is why the striker blocks have change dimensions over the past year. The dome contour, blocking surface height have all been altered to compensate for the tolerance stack between slide and frame, as well as the variance in the striker block lifter on the trigger bar.
]
Are you seeing much variation between trigger bars?
I’ve been getting occasional light strikes (1 every 300 rds or so) with handloads and after reading this thread thought it was the Apex striker block. So I swapped out striker blocks with another domed one. Still got a light strike. Then I swapped out top ends (slide/barrel from another M&P9). Got another light strike.
hmmm.
Think I better try a new trigger bar next. If that doesn’t work, maybe try your newer, taller striker blocks?
In fairness, have never had a failure to fire with a factory round…but have only shot maybe 300-400 factory through it. All the strikes look a little light to me.
From what I have seen, there is a lot of variance on trigger bars, barrels, slides and frames- such that it has taken about a year (2010 that is) to observe how large the tolerance swing really is. It takes a large sampling of pistols to start seeing how the problem guns behave. That is why I scan as many forums as I can to see if there are any trends in failure rates. Off topic, this is why I am working on extractors for the Gen 3 and 4 Glocks.
From the symptoms you described and the actions that you took,
I would first look at the easiest thing to remedy- your reloads.
From personal experience in shooting competition revolvers with reloads, the number one cause of light strikes has been primer seating depth. If you read any of the current reloading manuals (RCBS, Hornady, Sierra etc.) they all state somewhere in the discussion of primers that seating primers to maximum depth is the only way to ensure reliable ignition (excluding a manufacturing defect, of course). The general rule of thumb is that when you are reusing brass, the primer should be below flush with the case head stamp. You should definitely feel the surface of the primer dip below the back end of the case as you run your thumb or finger across it. If you compare your reloads to that of factory new ammunition, that would be a reasonable litmus test.
The reason is that if the primer anvil and cup are not bedded against the inside front of the primer pocket in the brass, there is a good chance that some of the firing pin energy will go to shifting the primer forward in the case rather than deforming the surface enough to cause ignition.
I only state the above because you stated that you had not experienced failures to fire with factory ammunition.
If your problem persists with factory ammo, then we definitely want to hear from you as that is a sign of something mechanical.
Thanks. I’m pretty sure its not primer depth at this point. I did have that problem before, but not in the last year or so…been real careful about fully seating primers. its much better now, but still getting occasional light strikes.
more importantly, I’m not having the same problem with my other
9mm guns (G19, BHP, or my other M&P9).
All the primer strikes look light with this gun, whether it goes off or not.
I’ll try a different trigger bar next. If that doesn’t cure it, will try a new striker block.
If this is indeed true, then I will feel sad… The place that ‘identified’ the problem is a certified S&W gunsmith store (and the only one) around this place. They were extremely confident that it was a competition striker spring. Their returning time is around 2 weeks for a simple sight change, always packed…
I dont think I am going back there again…I trust Grant more after being around this forum a couple of month.
