Are there any lowered powered 7.62x51mm loadings out there that can mimic “true intermediate calibers” like 7x46, 280 british, etc in energy and external ballistics?
The Spanish were messing around with one, and the original CETME rifle was designed to take it, but once they went with NATO and NATO standardization, they dropped the low recoil round and went full power.
You could always get a short barreled DSA OSW FAL or HK 51 and get the same ballistics as an AK in 7.62x39mm but with twice the muzzle blast, flash, and recoil…
I haven’t shot any of the lighter weight bullets in 7.62. Do any of them offer significantly less recoil?
My interest in low power 7.62x51mm comes from learning about the Chinese 5.8x42mm and its light 64gr round and the “heavy” 77gr round.
I thought that would be perfect for existing 7.62x51mm systems. A light, low powered round for infantry rifle and LMG, and the standard full power round for DMR’s and mounted GPMG’s.
Systems can alternate between light/heavy rounds by an adjustable gas regulator.
I wonder why the US and NATO didn’t attempt this decades ago.
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because shit would get mixed up.
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because the US didn’t want anything to do with a lower powered round. The 7.62x51mm mimics the performance of the WWII/Korea era USGI .30/06 M2 ball.
Probably the easiest route for a US civy would be to use a Hornady LR .30-30 or to roll your own reduced power 7.62x51.
The Japanese Howa Type 64 used a reduced power 7.62x51mm cartridge…
Interesting idea. I remember a old Soldier of Fortune article form the early eighties that proposed reworking and updating the M 14 so out troops in the R.D.F. (presumed they would fight in the Mid East) would have a weapon that would work at longer desert ranges.
The article proposed a down loaded 7.62x51 with like a 125 to 130 grain projectile. Like a magnum AK, a balsitic equevelant of the 7mm optimum from the NATO standardization tests in the 1950’s.
If you hand load you could try to develop a load with a 125 grain weight projectile. Functioning, dwell time and accuracy would be the drivers.
Regards
Matt aka Billy Mays
Mk319 Mod0 is a 130 gr 7.62x51 mm loading that works well for CQB, as it was optimized for use in SBR’s; however, it has been found a bit wanting for longer range engagements, so heavier 155 and 175 gr loads are being chosen in some current combat theaters…
Remington Reduced Recoil in .308 is a commercial off-the-shelf product that sounds like what you are talking about. If memory serves, its ballistics mimic a 30-30.
Out of curiosity, I tried this in my FAL. No joy; it would not cycle even with gas port in most closed position. In fairness, right on the box it warns the round may not function in autoloading rifles.
I played around loading some 125 Noslers, again in my FAL. But nothing really worked well; I suspect with correct powder (i.e. fast burning) a 125-130 gr bullet load could be made to work.
I’d love to try the 130 gr load Doc references.
sidebar- the FSC 30 compensator I put on my FAL made me forget a search for reduced recoil 7.62/.308
The Barnes .308x1.5" cartridge is a shortened (and consequently lower powered) .308 winchester cartridge that has been around since the 1960s. Various attempts were made to market it as an “assault rifle” caliber, but it did not do well.
If you are interested in wildcat cartridges, it might be of interest, but if you want to mimic .280/30 performance for an assault rifle, why not just go with 6.8 SPC?
“if you want to mimic .280/30 performance for an assault rifle, why not just go with 6.8 SPC?”
Ding, Ding…We have a winner!!!
yeah Doc. the 6.8 makes better sense, lighter, smaller wepon envelope. But if stuck with a 7.62x51, what about the Hornaday load, TAP 110, item 80898.
The 110 gr TAP is OK for unobstructed shots, although penetration is a bit on the shallow side; it NOT a good choice when intermediate barriers are a potential issue. For GP use in a semi-auto, I personally prefer a .308 projectile in the 150-155 gr range, ideally one that is barrier blind.
I have seen several deer and several wild pigs, and one turkey, shot with Remington’s 308 Managed Recoil load, a 125gr bullet, and a few deer and wild pigs, shot with Federal’s 30/06 Low Recoil load with the 170gr bullets.
The animals hit were from @10 yards to @100 yards.
Both loads killed game very good. Accuracy was good as well.
I do not think either of these loads would function a semi-auto.
I would guess that inside of 300m it does well and allows the SCAR Mk17 to mimic the FA controllability and effectiveness of the AK47, while having the option of using heavier 7.62mm loads for longer range engagements.
Is your recommendation of the Hornady 155 gr TAP still stand for GP use? Although not categorized as barrier-blind round, how does the 155 gr TAP do against intermediate barriers?
Full power 308/7.62x51mm loads with the Barnes X bullets, either 150gr or 165gr penetrate pretty good through “stuff” and give good terminal performance as well.
The Federal 308 Tactical load or their 165gr Trophy
Bonded Bearclaw bullet is a good barrier round as well.
For General Purpose Urban Civilian/Police use they would be overpenetrating, IMHO.
A 150 to 168gr bullet like Hornady TAP, or a load with a Ballistic Tip bullet is a good choice for General Purpose use.
I still hold 155gr TAP as the best general-purpose round. I will, of course, defer to Doc on this subject.