The bag would be pivoted forward enough to reach across the chest with the left hand.
This gets at the motive behind this thread, and maybe deserves a separate thread.
As I raise the AR from low-ready to fire-ready, the sling slides upward along the ribcage below the weak-side shoulder, until snagging on the chest rig’s strap attach point at its upper weak-side corner. I’ve tried arranging the buckle and strap in everyway I can think of to make it more streamlined and not snag, but no-go. The only other modification I can think of is to wrap the attachment in duct tape, which I am not too keen on. (BTW – the rig is Specter Gear’s).
I’ve also tried wearing either the rig or sling more loosely, which helps only when to the extreme of both practically falling off me (and the AR dragging in the dirt at low-ready). For the record, I’m 6-even and usually less than 170 lbs, so maybe this is a “it’s me” size problem.
I just thought of a possible fix for the strap/sling conflict.
I was looking at Rob-S’s Evolution of a Chest Rig article and noticed in the photos that the rear strap buckles are positioned higher on the back than when I’m wearing my rig, where they come all the way down to the attach points.
The possible fix would be to modify the straps by taking up some of the slack (which on me there is a lot of) at the forward buckles, rather than all of it at the rear. This would place the rear buckles higher up and possibly clear of the sling.
I’m going to try it and include some before/after photos. If successful, this will warrant a separate thread.
(next day) Well that didn’t work. The sling still snags with the straps, just higher up and more toward the back. Some kind of really small bag would still seem to suit my needs better than a chest rig, but everything I’ve been seeing looks too big to me now. Maybe I should just put a couple of mag pouches on a dedicated belt that I could sling over one shoulder bandoleer-style.
Since I posted a pic of my bag with 10 mags in it I’ll address this one.
What I’m thinking is this is a secondary magazine storage tool that is quick to grab and throw over your shoulder. It’s not for running and gunning, that’s what mag carriers are for, they will get resupplied from this bag. Rather than have a bunch of extra mags in the bottom of a backpack, this keeps them all in one seperate container. I treat it as a bag for support gear, not active gear.
Which brings up a good point, and that is what you intend to do with the bag.
I’ve been looking for a nondescript bag to carry 20 loaded magazines basically from the house to the car, and the car to the staging area for classes. Right now 22 magazines fit perfectly in the bottom of my range bin, but I’d like something separate.
The Sneaky bag is, for me, something I use when running drills and I need admin supplies and is conceptually something I could throw on in an urban setting with various things in it to include AR mags but not primarily for that.
I’ll go check and take a couple pics in a little bit for ya.
edit: Here ya go Rob.
Waist strap stowed on the back of the bag.
Waist strap ready to use.
And finally, the waist strap removed. You can see in the pic the piece of velcro used to hold the strap in place. The two horizontal stitching lines in the sheath the belt runs through hold the other side of the velcro in place.
I’m looking for something run/gun that won’t create the kind of slinging conflicts that my chest rig does. Maybe just a couple of belt pouches are in order.
I didn’t want a vest/chest rig, so I went with a drop thigh rig with 3 mag pouches on it. My belt has pistol mag pouches on it where the most convient mag pouch locations are, so I adapted for that. The belt clip for the thigh rig stays in place and just click it on when needed. It’s taking some getting used to since I’d never run any type of thigh rig before, but it’s not that bad, and for me the best option to date. Maybe that will change in the future, who knows, but this does away with the bulk of a chest rig, and all the tangles that go with it.
Of course I’d seen thigh rigs around , but never considered them seriously on the grounds of being too “GI” for a self-defense civvy application like mine. But thinking further, they’re not really any more or less Rambo than a chest rig. Quick on/off is still a must though. Maybe I’ll give them a second look.
scot, you mentioned you read my article on load carriage. I tend to run a single handgun, and single carbine on my belt. If I’m running a padded MOLLE belt then I get two carbine and three handgun.
It sounds like maybe you’re looking for something for competition? I’m not certain of your end-use.
If you do wing up going the drop-leg route make sure you run it high enough so as not to cause the drop-leg-lean when you reach for the magazines.
Never had a chest rig to get tangles in, but I can see how snagging on pouches and buckles could be an issue.
My opinion is that outside a warfare environment the full on chest rig just isn’t that well suited for the environment.
If you think about it as a civilian and put aside all the warfighter fantasies that folks have, what situation is going to have you decked out in all the tactical gear? What is going to be the most realistic way to get the hell outa dodge or whatever the situation dictates?
For target shooting, competition, etc, lighter is better. If you do encounter some scenario that has you loading up, odds are initially that drawling as little attention to yourself as possible is going to be a good choice, think your basic CCW, a backpack, and case/bag for a rifle.
If you have to get the rifle out of the case or bag, then blending in goes out the window, then you throw on the thigh rig, or chest rig as you see fit. Up until that point though, you’ll have to consider a way to carry it, and a chest rig with all the gear tacked onto it looks to be kinda bulky for toting in a discrete bag which is better served carrying the rest of your gear.
Now, if you are just talking about defense as in bump in the night, just throw a Redi-mag on the side of the rifle and call it good with 60 rds on board and not worry about grabbing other stuff.
You miss the point of the chest rig for many people, as is often the case. It’s not about dress-up, or warrior fantasies, or anything else. It’s about the most convenient way to carry a number of magazines to the line in a match or training environment and having them readily available. I use mine to back-feed either a belt pouch(es) or a Redimag.
I fully realize that my opinion is not a popular one and was/am waiting to catch some flack for it.
What type of matches take more than 3 or 4 mags, 1 or 2 on the gun, and a couple in belt pouches? The rest goes with the other gear, in a bag at the start line.
Carbine courses and training are all good, but the phrase “train like you fight” has been around for a long time, so training with a chest rig might actually be a disservice. Unless you are mil/le a chest rig outfitted with all the kit to me isn’t a realistic wear item in a situation that is going to have you grabbing your gear and heading out in public (some sort of bug out scenario). I also see very few, ok, zero, pics of carbine classes where the participants are carrying a huge pack full of survival stuff on their backs. Skills are skills, but reality has to come into play at some point as well.
I do get the point of a chest rig and it’s convience for carrying stuff in a readily available fashion, that’s why the pro’s (mil/le) wear em. They are also traveling in squad strength, or are hopping out of marked vehicles with the rest of their uniform on under em.
Like I said, not a popular opinion, but I can live with that and hopefully I/we can take something away from the discussion that follows.
I am pretty sure I get Rob’s point so I am going to try to break it down a little more barney style. Rob if I am wrong, call me on it.
Rob’s point along with alot of other shooters about the chest rig is that it is there for mag storage only. They are not necessarily “fighting” out of it, but “filling” out of it.
Classes and events can get really old in a hurry when you only carry one mag on your belt. So why not carry 3-4 across your chest that you use to fill that one belt pouch? This means less time going back and forth from the line and more time training.
Another point was brought up for train like you fight. In a home defense scenario are you going to be able to strap on a belt pouch? The Redimag was mentioned which is an awesome option, but for a class/training environment how are you going to keep it fed?
As for the fact about concealing a chest rig. Yes it can be done. From my very LIMITED expereince of just fooling around with the concept, it can actually be done quite easily and effectively.
Please enlighten me if you have the time, I come to these boards to learn as much as any other reason.
I highlighted your last sentence as I’m guessing it’s the key to what you’re talking about. If the chest rig is merely carrying your spares vice what you are practicing loading from, I can see some value. My hangup is if you’re spending a ton of time trying to reload your mag pouches tactically from it so that it becomes a key piece of gear and engrained as a standard operating procedure of sorts.
Am I on the right track?
edit: Sorry PJ, got a phone call while I was typing and by the time I hit submit you had posted what I was thinking about Rob’s statements.
Oh goodie – I love starting a thread that gets some real juices flowing! Here’s my 2p.
I’m looking for something beyond matches, but that I could and would use at matches as well. If it were solely for competition, I would just have one or two belt pouches. If back-filling was needed, I would do so from a separately carried (i.e. not worn) bag, probably something like that Maxpedition item shown earlier. I no longer shoot a lot of big 3-gun matches though, and most of my competition with the AR nowadays is at small side-matches affiliated with my local IDPA. Even just a single belt pouch is adequate there.
The rig or bag or whatever else to be considered for AR-mag carry would be for the self-defense/homeland-defense arena. Here again is the scope-of-problem question. To address the immediacy of a bump-in-the-night scenario, the AR would actually not factor in at all, as my 870 HD with Surefire forend is the designated first responder, with a variety of handguns for support/fall-back. The AR would be for the broader, more time-dilated social unrest, Katrina-esque, SHTF – call it what you will – scenario. Whether this be bug-out or bug-in (the latter more likely in my case, living in a rural area) – and without unduly fantasizing on possible specific events – the basic need is the ability to remain relatively substantially armed (i.e. more than a handgun) for multi-hour to multi-day periods. Ammo carry of 3-4 mags would need to be as comfortable and mobile as possible. As I use competition as a form of practice, I would want to use the same configuration in matches, even though I wouldn’t be beating the guys with the race rifles (which I wouldn’t be anyway).
Finally, regarding the utility of chest rigs: it’s not black or white. They come in a whole range of sizes, weights, and capacities. The 3-mag Specter Gear item I currently have is among the most streamlined, is emminantly grabable/go-able, and actually conceals under a light jacket nearly as easily as a handgun. Were it not for the strap-sling snagging issue, I would be content to keep with that.
