I believe Doc Roberts made the statement that his observations of 10% ordnance gelatin have been very consistent with his observations of actual wounds but I can’t find the reference. Can someone help with that? Thanks.
I believe the article you may be looking for is at:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=106470&page=5
dated 8-22-12 by DocGKR
“The IWBA published some of Gene Wolberg’s material from his study of San Diego PD officer involved shootings that compared bullet performance in calibrated 10% ordnance gelatin with the autopsy results using the same ammunition. When I last spoke with Mr. Wolberg in May of 2000, he had collected data on nearly 150 OIS incidents which showed the majority of the 9mm 147 gr bullets fired by officers had penetrated 13 to 15 inches and expanded between 0.60 to 0.62 inches in both human tissue and 10% ordnance gelatin. Several other agencies with strong, scientifically based ammunition terminal performance testing programs have conducted similar reviews of their shooting incidents with much the same results–there is an extremely strong correlation between properly conducted and interpreted 10% ordnance gelatin laboratory studies and the physiological effects of projectiles in actual shooting incidents.”
The four layer denim (4LD) test is NOT designed to simulate any type of clothing–it is simply an engineering test to assess the ability of a projectile to resist plugging and robustly expand. FWIW, one of the senior engineers at a very respected handgun ammunition manufacturer has commented that bullets that do well in 4LD testing have invariably worked well in actual officer involved shooting incidents. Most handgun bullets recovered from human tissue in surgery or at autopsy tend to look very similar to those same type of projectiles after 4LD testing.
See post #62 in this thread: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=129949&page=4
Thank you. I seem to recall a different quote but that should help. Some idiot is arguing that calibrated gelatin isn’t really useful for anything other than comparing one bullet to another. From what I remember, Doc Roberts has told us that it does a pretty good job of predicting projectile behavior in flesh.
You can refer to this web page, scrolling down to just past the References/Endnotes section for information from Duncan MacPherson and Dr. Fackler which directly address the issue of properly prepared and calibrated ordnance gelatin as a valid “typical” soft tissue simulant - http://www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/2006/04/03/0604-03a.htm
Thank you, sir. It was that second to last quote from Dr. Fackler (just above your own comment) that I had mistakenly attributed to Dr. Roberts.
I’ve read Doc Roberts write more than once here that performance of a bullet in tissue is very similar to the performance in 10% Ord Gel with 4LD.
One of the senior engineers at a very respected ammunition manufacturer has commented that handgun bullets that do well in 4LD testing have invariably worked well in actual officer involved shooting incidents. Most handgun bullets recovered from human tissue in surgery or at autopsy tend to look like those same type of projectiles after 4LD testing.