I think it’s a subject that needs its own attention. I’d like to discuss when and why we would take a long gun as well as why we might leave it. I’d also like to discuss how we might transport it. I think discussing that dilemma might have bearing on sopme of the other discussions, as well as potentially a bigger picture of bugging out, alamo’ing up, and our general game plan.
I’ll post more when I get back from the gym.
tag 
I think this is a great topic for discussion, but I think that those that participate are going to need to be clear as to their A/O and what situation they are planning for. What I do leaving my old apartment in downtown Ft. Lauderdale because we’re being force-evac’d in front of a hurricane is going to be a lot different than what someone else is going to do in rural bumfuck after a social or government collapse.
There will be some constants, but things like this are ALL situational IMHO.
Tagging/tossing .02 worth:
I was thinking about this last night.
For any prolonged, statewide/region-wide/nationwide crisis, I would probably find any way possible to keep one on my person. Now, where my mental rigidity comes into factor is that natural disasters, from my point of view, aren’t “it”.
Economic implosion would present a unique and challenging tactical opportunity. This particular crisis would carry its own set of problems. Short of hordes of riotous, looters, a long arm might not be the most tactically sound weapon. I don’t see the situation being too terribly different than current “normal” life, just with less money, lots of disenfranchised people, and probably a 20-fold increase in crime. Wandering the streets at this point, with any sort of combat load-out, will simply make the operator a target. This would be a semi-bug-in scenario, where the SFW is going to be present and available, but not one’s main weapon.
Before going into any more GTG/NG on the deployment of SFWs in a disaster situation, I think we need to define the threat levels, so-to-speak.
Thermonuclear holocaust, and Hurricane John Doe both carry with them distinctly different circumstances.
This thread has monumentally righteous potential…
ETA: Rob responded while I was posting, and he’s absolutely right. My circumstances are completely different in Metropolitan Atlanta, than they would be if I was in Leiper’s Fork, Tennessee. The logistics for planning an evac here would be nightmarish at best. The last thing I want to do is get out there into the “party” if the SHTF here in Atlanta.
There’s also the question of not only the situation, but what you want the gun to do in the situation.
Do you need this?
or this?
tag for interest . . .
I do not have much to add. The only thing I could say is that my long arm would come out if the crisis was a total chaos situation. Now what would cause that is hard to say, but if all is broken down around me and messed up the rifle will be out in the open. Anything else requires discretion in my opinion. Then again I have never gone through such a thing and these are just my thoughts.
Good point . . .
I went to the gym and ate some chow and you guys are already ahead of me!! here’s what I’ve written so far. I’ll continue in a while.
There seems to be quite a bit of discussion about “bugging out” and what kit to carry. There are plenty of options out there but one question that continues to come up is how to stay “the grey man” and still carry a long gun. I think we need to take a hard look at our situation, the circumstances we might find ourselves in, and what to do about that long gun. Because we need to have some context to our situation we’ll try to paint in broad strokes, and add specifics as necessary. To be honest, if we keep things realistic I think we’ll find most decisions won’t be too different no matter the circumstances.
By definition “bugging out” means we are moving. We want to move from point A to point B. What are our points??? Our home?? Work? A vehicle? A public forum? A predetermined “safe” house or sight?? A hasty hide or building to occupy?? By definition we are trying to get somewhere of lesser advantage to a place of better advantage. The exception would be moving to SOMEONE, like our family or friends in need, someone in trouble or disabled, etc.
Regardless of why we are leaving we have determined that we need to be somewhere else. Inherently that means we have a purpose and to move accordingly. I can’t think of a single reason to move and not have a destination and not be highly motivated to get there. Even if you don’t have a specific location and only know the place you’re at is sucking, you still probably aren’t going to move like it’s a Sunday drive. Speed becomes a factor.
For this discussion we’re going to talk about moving on foot. If we have a vehicle then the point is almost moot. Believe me, if I’m alamo’ing up or moving in a vehicle then the gear I chose and the time and distance I can cover are a different discussion.
So if we’re moving on foot we need to be VERY conscious of what we carry. There are tons of discussions about what and how people will carry life saving equipment and comfort items. We can talk about that too, but the one item that continues to arise is that pesky long gun. Do we need it?? Should we take it?? How? What if we don’t take it?? What are we going to do with it??
Answering some of these questions and coming up with some solutions might help us in the rest of our loadout. Determining what we carry and how we carry it also determines what we can accomplish. Things like where we can go and how far we can travel are directly related to the solutions above.
Simple math tells us we can go farther without a long gun. If I fore go a long gun (in this case an M4 carbine) that means I don’t have a 7-10 pound rifle and 3-10 pounds of ammo (one mag weighs approximately 1 pound). Can you move farther with 10-20 pounds less?? I think I can.
What do we consider in making that determination? Now things get somewhat tricky. Each person envisions different situations. I think the biggest consideration is the geographic location we find ourselves in as well as the circumstances that have made us move. Let’s run down a few somewhat generic situations and make some decisions from there.
On foot, I think, limits the discussion to some pretty serious “society is dissolving” type shit. Something has to have happened to either make road travel by vehicle inhospitable (too many hostile government types, other hostile parties or groups, etc.), impossible (some kind of EM pulse situation taking out all the vehicles, no gas, etc.), or similar.
The information in the link below has been posted here before, but I don’t think the complete story or from the same source. I think there is pertinent information within the story to this discussion and is a good read in general.
WARNING: I have no fucking clue about the web page it is hosted on.
Good read!
All of this kind of confirms for me that by and large, even with widespread economic and social collapse, we aren’t looking at scenarios where we’re likely to be traveling any significant distances with a slung rifle and a chest rig. The author mentioned at one point having a folded-stock FAL PARA beneath his coat, but he had it on him because he was already going shooting with a friend. It sounds like to me that the only feasible way to be carrying any kind of long gun is if that long gun is fairly short or can be made short (collapsible stocks, folding stocks, SBRs, etc.), and concealable.
-B
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Ferfal’s analysis is an excellent resource. Consider him a “Subject Matter Expert”.
I’ve decided to post a new thread, addressing the thought process that Josh’s link sent me down, as everything I’ve written will seriously compromise the excellent direction of this thread. Thusly, I’ll take everything I’ve posted here, and put it in a different one.
In short, depending on the level of systemic disaster, a long arm may be a very useful tool.
An SBR might fit the bill for many diff. reasons/situations.
While this is not a rifle by no means other option would be to turn a pistol into a small PDW with the addition of a stock, forward grip and 33rd magazines. While this is very illegal to do unless you apply for a $200.00 stamp and register the pistol as a AOW it is but another option to consider. After all the paper work is finished and approved one could carry the light weight plastic stock and forearm in your BOB and convert the pistol on your hip when needed. A Glock Model 34 or 35 would be ideal for such a conversion IMHO.
Something like this,
http://www.zahal.org/rifle/p22.htm
Sorry if this is too far off topic but I think its possible adaptability fits into some of the needs of a small PDW.
I have never really come across a “Civilian” looking vest which fit my needs for storage of magazines and other small items without looking like I was 300lbs and hiding something. What type of Vests are members using to fit this mission which may cover a PDW or a M-4?
…
I’m pretty sure my studies over the years have indicated that stocked pistols didn’t really give more than a theoretical advantage in accuracy over standard pistols, which is why they never really became popular.
I’d rather use the weight and bulk to carry a BUG instead of the stock. Then, I have a second gun just in case, or a means to arm a family member if need be, etc.
This is a direct link to Ferfel’s site, onto the firearms page;
http://ferfal.blogspot.com/search/label/Firearms
Scroll down to the “Why your first gun should be a handgun” blog.
Other links include topics we have been discussing, including his suggestions for “get-home-bags”, etc.
I’ve got a bigger post I’m working on but I’m liking the thought process I’m seeing so far.
A few themes I’m recognizing is that getting all “jocked up” might not be the best initial solution, weight is a concern, and scalability might be something to think about.
If possible, let’s try to keep this thread about the long gun. I realize the threads cross topic a bit, but how we interact with the long gun in a bug out situation is the specific topic.
Rob, the presumption of being on foot is pertinent to this topic because a vehicle makes all the parameters change. We can go farther, carry more, hide it easier, etc. Is it plausible?? I can think of MANY situations where having to move on foot comes up. Something as simple a a disabled vehicle, to a vehicle being a bullet magnet (OCUNUS) to natural disaster egress. Major arteries seem to get clogged in a hurry. I know in VA Beach getting out of town for the hurricanes was tricky. I can’t imagine what it’s like in your neck of the woods.
I’ll writing my posts in WORD and then dropping them in here. I type like fuck so losing an entire post ruins my whole day. 