My department is going to be sending me to sniper school next spring. It is a pretty small department and so far there are only 2 other snipers. There is ONE sniper rifle that is kept at the PD, so both guys have built their own rifle to keep with them to deploy.
I am planning to do the same, and I would really like to use the LMT 3008 as that rifle. Would I be expecting too much out of it to use it as a sniper rifle, is it more of a very accurate battle rifle? If the LMT is not capable I can save a little longer and buy an OBR or REPR if they would perform much better in that role.
Looking for opinions, especially from some of you guys that already have the rifles, before I drop the cash. Interested in hearing opinions about both the current version and the added possibilities when the 18"SS barrel comes out.
I have all 3 of the weapons that you have mentioned. The OBR has the best accuracy out of the box with sub-0.5 MOA capability. The MWS is the least expensive and shoots about 1 MOA in its current factory configuration. The REPR is a 0.5-1 MOA weapon, and you pay a premium for the adjustable gas system, side charging handle, etc. Most of these are not needed for a police precision system.
All are equally reliable (yes, including the REPR).
Although the factory trigger is nice, the MWS accuracy could be improved by upgrading the trigger and the addition of a SS barrel. Once this is done, you may approach the cost and performance of the OBR, but this is speculation. Thus, I say go with the OBR unless you really need the monolithic rail and quick change barrel on the MWS.
My MWS shoots sub MOA with cheaper PRVI match ammo, and a little better with BH, and FGMM. The 18" 5r match barrels are supposed to be released early next year. Throw one of those on there and the result should be EXCELLENT accuracy.
IMHO, the two most accurate AR platforms in 308 on the market today are the OBR and the SR25-EMC (I’ll give honorable mentions to GAP and the N6). While the MWS borrows many features from the KAC offering, I’ve not yet experienced comparable accuracy. This MAY change with new barrel offerings in the future, but my comments are for what comes from the factory today. So, if you want the most accurate 308 AR available today, you have 2 choices. If you go with the MWS, you will spend some extra money down the road on a new trigger and barrel, and take a little gamble that these modifications will improve accuracy.
As for my MOA claims, they are the average of 5-shot groups x5.
I have spent a ton of money on the AR platform and just don’t see it ever being a .5MOA rifle in either 5.56 or .308 but I don’t own an OPR.
If you’re going to be a sniper and want eyeball accuracy why are you even thing about an AR.? For the money your planning on spending you could have an awesome bolt gun!
It’s much easier to accurately shoot a bolt gun than it is an AR platform plus you’re not going to deal with as many potential train wrecks.
For 100 yards and more realistically half that as LE the bolt gun is the best option.
The missing component and what no one is asking is…
If a rifle product (meaning, all of the rifles as a collective) is really 1/2 MOA (and I highly doubt it is) it makes me wonder about reliability. An AI bolt gun does not even claim 1/2 MOA precision. Why? Because they know reliability first.
I would want to know what the free bore diameter is on the reamer. Just one example where someone may look for an edge in accuracy at the expense of reliability.
Some good info here already, thanks for the input. It is nice to hear from guys that actually own and use these rifles, particularly someone that owns all 3.
I would love to have the SR-25 but that would mean giving up a huge part of my gun collection to be able to afford it.
If you’re going to be a sniper and want eyeball accuracy why are you even thing about an AR.? For the money your planning on spending you could have an awesome bolt gun!
It’s much easier to accurately shoot a bolt gun than it is an AR platform plus you’re not going to deal with as many potential train wrecks.
For 100 yards and more realistically half that as LE the bolt gun is the best option.
Well as you say, 100 yards or in would be the typical shot in this line of work. An AR shooting 1 MOA should be plenty sufficient at those ranges. Plus the AR would allow for faster follow-up shots, or rapid engagement with multiple threats.
I dont think you are ready for “sniper school” if you have to put much thought on what rifle to get. An AR platform would be the first system to cross out of your list.
I have an MWS, its an awesome weapon, but it serves me as a meer fun toy and has the potential for a DMR role, “sniper”? I dont think so
Yes. It is probably a fine sniper weapon. And police basically never shoot over 30 yards. What is important is that it is 308. I say get it if you want. Use 150-165 grain plastic tipped ammo.
[QUOTE=OTO27;769759]I dont think you are ready for “sniper school” if you have to put much thought on what rifle to get.QUOTE]
Ha, I guess I will have to report back that I can’t go, because OTO27 on the internet said I am not ready. :rolleyes:
Do you know of any other “agency” fielding such a weapon for a sniper role?
Cody, to the North of us, uses the DPMS SASS. Lincoln County uses tarted up M14’s. I am not really that plugged in so I couldn’t tell you beyond that. Obviously there are some military orgs that use the KAC, and of course LMT has the contract in the UK for the MOD, not sure if they are using them for sniper or DMR duty though.
An AR platform would be the first system to cross out of your list.
Thanks, you should probably pass that along to the USMC as well, apparently they haven’t been told.:rolleyes:
I guess maybe I was not clear enough in my first post. I am not asking if the AR system can work in the role, I am asking about the LMT in particular and how it stacks up against the KAC and the OBR. The KAC has proven itself in that arena and the OBR has been around long enough that it has a stellar reputation for accuracy, and frankly anything MOA or better will work for this role if it is also reliable. Once you meet that criteria I see no reason to limit yourself to a 5 shot bolt if you can achieve the same (relative) performance from an autoloader with 4x capacity. Of course ideally any situation you have to use the rifle in would be resolved in one shot, but I don’t live in an ideal world and I see no reason to limit my equipment because I am assuming things would go as planned.
Dont understand your USMC comment. The USMC runs the M40 bolt gun.
Seems you really want a battle rifle and to be a sniper so have at it. If you desire 1MOA then PASS on the LMT 16" with chrome lined barrel. Mine will not do it 100% of the time with factory or reloads. I assume you will have to shoot factory rounds?
The factory SOPMOD stock sucks for prone/precision work. The trigger is not that great either. 20 round mags are to long for many true “sniper” applications. Plan on trading out the factory flash hider as well as the rifle jumps all over the place and does not allow for fast follow up shots.
For $2400 your getting a reliable 308 blaster/battle rifle which it seems your really after. Bought mine to play with and be a “games” gun. Hopefully after new barrel options are released next year the accuracy will improve. Nothing about this rifle out of the box is right for use with the word sniper rifle.
Remember you asked us and all the comments made so far have been more than fair.
I also don’t feel 1 MOA is a realistic requirement. Perhaps pick 1.0 MOA as the objective and 1.5 MOA as the threshold - based on 5x5 groups of plastic tipped 150-165 grain ammo.
If you want some truly solid advice, head over to www.snipershide.com. Be prepared to provide creds. Do so and you will recieve a ton of help and direction from operational police snipers. One to particulerly look for is Brian K. Sain.
:rolleyes:
