In my experience 9mm Glocks have always been succeptible to “limp wristing” when using the relatively mild ball ammo that most purchase for practice. I have always assumed that the 9mm Glocks were built to run best around ammo that is NATO spec or better, which is hotter than what I see most people shoot at the range. The Glock 19 seems, at least in my experience, to be particularly easy to choke with a weak grip.
I’ve not seen someone induce a malfunction by their grip when using +P ammo. As an example, I was at a public range some years ago and in the lane beside me there was a young lady and her boyfriend. She was shooting her Glock 19 and was experiencing a malfunction almost every other round, usually a stovepipe or some other failure to completely eject. When she and her boyfriend started screwing with the gun…which resulted in it being pointed at me…I offered my services. I fired a mag of their ammo without problem.
At the time I had a couple of boxes of some reject 124 grain +P Speer Gold Dot ammo that I bought from ammoman dirt cheap. I loaded one of their mags with my Speer ammo and told her to give it a shot. She was surprised by the recoil, but the gun functioned just fine.
My suggestion to folks would be to use +P or equivalent ammo for daily carry in a Glock as it seems to offer the best possible reliability.
The link I included was a real event. Both his hands were shot. Real scenarios just become items we can use for training and awareness. I’m sure he had never what-iffed actually getting shot in both hands either…
I’ve shot mine one handed both strong and weak side. Have had light grips on it but not as exaggerated as the videos in this thread. No problems. m4arc and I might be going shooting tonight, I’ll try some limp wristing within the boundaries of range safety.
interesting, gives one something to think about doesnt it? Wasnt there just a thread on here not too long ago about a gentleman who was hit in both hands while in a gunfight with a bad guy? Im guessing that would probably affect your ability to have positive grip on your weapon some…
No empirical data. I have some but it’s one sample and I’m not an SME. I do know I’m not seeing any reports of limp wristing problems with the Gen4 G17s. There’s several very satisfied owners on this very site who would know a problem if they had it. I could link to their range reports if you like.
So it’s not a foregone conclusion, you are saying “spring is stiffer therefore the weapon has a limp wristing problem” though you have no collated real world data.
In a post on the long Gen 4 thread, Larry Vickers predicted increased limp wristing issues with the new 17. That’s the only evidence I’ve seen published. I don’t dispute it logically follows this might be true. I have never actually seen anyone limp wrist a Glock to failure when trying to actually shoot it, and that includes small framed gals just learning to shoot. Four of them actually. Probably a result of superior coaching.
But be that as it may, I can make my Gen 4 G17 fail to cycle shooting is with that 3 finger hold - sideways. I only tried it once. Tried it once with my Pro 9 too and it cycled. The Pro 9 is very easy to cycle by hand btw.
But, my Gen 4 G17 is running so strong (1400 rds on the way to the 2K test) and it handles so well, I’m not worrying too much about now. No more than I have since the Glocks first were introduced and this issue was mentioned.
You mean, is there a youtube video on it yet? No, if you like I could probably create one.
By all means, don’t take my word on it. Vickers has already stated that he believes that the GEN 4 will be more susceptible to limp wristing.
I have already seen several “short stroking” posts on this forum alone (imagine there are more on GT and other large forums) with the GEN 4. The simple fact is that if there wasn’t an issue with the GEN 4’s, then why is Glock already coming out with a weaker spring???
The Glock GEN 3 is KNOWN to have a problem with limp wristed shooters. The GEN 4 is showing problems with some NONE limp wristed shooters so it is most likely going to have an even bigger problem than the GEN 3’s do.
Its kind of like the GEN 3 G22 thing. Not ALL G22’s exhibited problems when you mounted a metal light on it (maybe a 70/30 split). So just because we don’t see EVERY GEN 4 G17/G19 fail to run, doesn’t mean there isn’t a problem and when 10,000 guns get onto the market, then we might see the same kinds of numbers we did with the G22. Time will tell.
In this thread, it is not whether the shooter is limp wristing because they don’t know how to shoot properly. The concern is that if you are shot in the hand(s), your ability to hold onto the gun well enough so that it will run reliably.
The Gen 3 Glocks I owned would only malfunction when I shot them in the manner you described . My cousin (6’2 250) could not shoot a Glock without seeing a malfunction every single mag. Something about the way he held the gun (two handed) just did not work. I would take the gun and shoot it all day long without an single issue. Very strange.
I have two Gen 4 G17’s with around 2400 rds through each and have never had a single malf of any kind and I have tried to induce them. Didn’t happen with any ammo I used. Maybe I got the two magic G4’s?
So we know for sure that Glock is coming out with weaker spring for the G17 Gen 4? Having never had an issue I don’t particularly feel the need for it so I will most likeley stick with what they came with.
That’s a pretty weak strawman, as is the original video I posted. It’s obvious there are ways to induce malfunctions on purpose, but that not every gun would be suspect to failure.
Conversely, you may be able to take a G17 out right now, lube it up, and use 9x19 NATO spec ammo, and never have a malfunction at all. Even shooting it with the same grip as in the video.
The only point the video seems to make to me is that when compared side-by-side, in what I hope wasn’t a rigged ammo test, a “gunshop tale” was born out.
All it did for me was remind me to be aware of my grip and apply proper grip pressure, as best I could.
No, I did not mean a YouTube video and I explicityly stated what I was looking for but again, I meant more than “I heard Vickers say it.”
No disrespect to Vickers at all but I was and am looking for actual data.
From what I understand the changes to the slide give it less mass and I’ve read that the multiple springs make for what’s described as a variable rate spring. So are these bits of information not true, do they not matter, are all Glock 9mms susceptible to limp wristing no matter what, or are we no longer concerned with technical data and real world experience on this site?
I don’t get your point. Mine is that there is a supposition that Gen 4 Glock 17’s are susceptible to limp wristing. That has not been the case with either of mine. If it was so obvious and pre-ordained I would be able to induce it between two pistols with all sorts of ammo.
Ok, put bluntly, sample size of two means very little. The phenomenon demonstrated in the video I linked, while only one pistol, has been known to occur at a rate high enough to have even Gaston disciples understanding it can happen and how to correct it.
The Gen4 Glocks have a stiffer overall spring rate, whether variable or not, than their Gen3 counterparts. Apparently, this is to force the slide back into battery and avoid OOB detonation issues. So a spring with a stiffer overall rate, in an otherwise grossly unchanged design, would likely lead to continuation of the same problems, or more instances of those issues as shown and understood by many/most people.
Limpwristing Glocks to failures of a few varieties is real, my only point in this whole thing is to be mindful of it, and try and combat improper grip, improper grip pressure and weak ammo.
Awareness of the issue, in many cases, keeps the issue at bay.
I don’t think there’s much point pressing the issue with the Gen4’s. Its simply too early. Even with Gen 3’s and the millions of Glocks produced since then most people are gonna fall back to their limited experiences, observations, and internet lore. Regardless its gonna be a small sample. Not all “failures” can necessarily be attributed to “limp wristing” and observations are subject to our interpretations.
For me, being shot in one hand, both hands, suffering an injury to a hand, or someone having chronic issues firing a Glock underess is one of those narrow “what if’s”.
What if 8 rounds in a 1911 isn’t enough?
What if having a weapon mounted light could have saved your life?
Maybe a .45 or .40 caliber bullet would have stopped the perp through the windshield while the 9mm couldn’t?
What if carrying a BUG could have saved your life?
What if an emergency reload could have saved your life?
Would having a pistol that supposedly cycles better when someone is shot in both hands made a difference? Is there data that can show a person whose hand is severely impaired can even hit anything compared to if he had a Glock.
The statistics or chances become narrower with every variation you throw into it. What’s a person to do when they’ve literally put tens of thousands of rounds through various Glocks with little to no forseeable issues. When is it reasonable or appropriate to make choices about what we carry based on certain probabilities? Is there a “perfect” handgun?
Sometimes certain things take a hold in our minds and they get bigger and bigger. Whether its a handgun, caliber, or even where we decide to place our holster.
I’m not trying to dismiss this. But how much import should this be given?
I’ve never had nor seen limp wristing in Glocks be an issue. I realize that perhaps if I grip the weapon with three fingers or shoot it with very weak ammo this could be an issue. I’m not losing sleep over it and I think it’s a non issue like Shivan said provided you use good ammo and train.
I also heed the advice of those who have been there and done that but will continue to look for more data than “so and so believes.” When I hear “so and so has seen a majority of these go down in classes” then I’ll call that data you can act on.
I have reduced strength and sensitivity in my right/strong side hand. Considerable nerve damage as well. Never an issue shooting my Gen4 G17 strong side only.
Nor do I think it will actually prove to be any more of an issue than it is on the Gen3 guns.