Leupold CQBSS First Impressions

Actually not first impressions, I’ve had it over a month and shot it on two different rifles in two different competitions, but I didn’t want to over promise since I don’t have a lot of pics.

I have the CQBSS version with the TMR reticle on it, mounted in a Larue mount. The scope has a nice feel to it. Pretty easy to grab the power ring, its the back third of the scope, and turn it. The relatively high mounting of AR optics helps to allow me to get my hand around it. No parallax to fiddle with. The windage and elevation knobs are trully inspired, they are not going to move unless you are grabbing from both sides, and I’ve never failed to get the knobs to move from a bad grip. Like good technology, it keeps you from getting into trouble, and it is barely noticable that they are there. You need an allen wrench to rezero them, I’ve been spoiled by my Premier knobs. By how high you set the knobs you can limit the knobs to one turn. The elevation knob is marked for MK262 out past 700m. Illumination knob works well with 10 levels and and off inbetween settings.

It is with the illumination that this scope gets kind of squirrely, and at $3400+ sales prices I’ve seen, you shouldn’t have squirrels you should have mink. Bone head me left the scope on, with a pretty fresh battery, on a fairly high setting. When I got back to the rifle the battery was dead. S&B Short Dots auto off to preserve batteries don’t they. Actually figuring out the battery was dead was another issue and the biggest drawback to the scope. A step back first.

I have the the TMR reticle version, not the uber-ninja holographic low power dot with the Horus reticle. Not nocking the TMR reticle, I’ll talk about that when I talk about the optics. The issue is that the reticle is not day light illumination visible. Dun-dun-dun… Something that scopes a quarter of the price seem to have figured out, Leupold has not put into their “Hey we can make real tactical scopes” offering. I confirmed with another CQBSS owner and he concurred that it is not day light visible. Does it make the scope unusable, not by a long shot-- but to go from the low power DAYLIGHT visible dot in the Horus scope to a non day light reticle seems a bit odd. I noticed it mostly during the matches when I had to shoot black steel targets. You can still see the reticle, it just gets a little more difficult, especially when you are using hold overs. I’ve looked thru the Horus/Dot version (for only like a minute), and while it was a bot odd- it was red till viewed a bit off kilter and then it turned green- at least it gave you a nice red dot for low power shooting.

And I think that is the biggest issue, with out the a daylight lit feature, the scope isn’t nearly as fast close up as it could be. They can get the Red dot lit well enough, why not the TMR reticle???

Moving on, the optics are great. Edge to edge clarity, razor sharp. (I know, everyone says that about their scopes like everyone is an above average driver). I’ve shot it out to 400 yards and could read bullet hits like I was looking at the back of my hand. The 1.1 works like a 1x to me- no issues when I’ve tested it out or in matches. From 4-8x the reticle comes into its own and is very readable. The first match I used it on an LMT MWS, but the longest shots were 100 yards. Even a lot of the shorter range targets were head shots or tight shots, so 3-4 magnification helped me to be precise and know that I had neutralized the target.

The most challenging stage was at Pueblo’s Rifle match where I ran it on my JP 556 upper. The first bank of targets were at about 15 yards and you needed head shots, so I started out at 1.1 and engaged them. You then had to engage IPSC target at about 400 yards, so I cranked it to 8x and used the reticle to hold over. You then had to engage 4 swingers at 150-230 yards, along a hillside, so I cranked it to about 4x and engaged them. You then had to move to three other shooting postions and engage the same IPSC and four targets. The IPSC got a bit closer, and the 4 disks got about 25-30 yards farther away. I did the same dialing back and forth to help my accuracy at 400 and dialing it back to help with the hillside targets. This really showed how the scope shines. On longer range targets the TMR held true and allowed me not to have to fiddle with the elevation knobs.

Another stage had a VTAC wall and a single reduced size IPSC target at 125 yards. My first time shooting the wall and I didn’t have experience with the positions. I had the scope dialed to 3-4, and the lowest holes gave me fits as I tried to get behind the scope. A bit of an issue with eye relief, but that is more an issue with my ergonomics than the scopes, and a had a bit more mag on than I should have. An illuminated reticel might have nade me feel better about where the POA was on the black IPSC target.

Going to cut this a bit short. Got a head cold and I took some Nyquill and thought I’d type faster than I have, and its been a long day.

All in all a great scope, outside the un-illuminated illumination set-up. It really is hard to judge since I think its direct peers- the S&B and Premier are still not out- and the CQBSS has been in the field for awhile. If those are everything they are claimed to be, the CQBSS will take a beating. It is really hard to damn the CQBSS when its peers are still not on the market.

Here’s hoping Leupold figure out the illumination, or figures out a cheaper way to do the red dot like on the Horus models.

They can get the Red dot lit well enough, why not the TMR reticle???

It has to do with the technology used to light the dot. S&B basically crams an Aimpoint into their scope, it uses an LED the same way an Aimpoint would.

The CQBSS has the holographic technology, which is just more of the same.

Reticles are illuminated by bouncing light off of a special paint applied to the reticle. This methond is horribly inefficient. The SWFA scopes are bright, but at the highest setting the battery life is pretty bad. I’ll go as far to say it just sucks. I’m sure that will make some readers happy. :wink:

Thanks for the review. Illumination is a big disappointment. Seems like the CQBSS offers a much higher price than proven optics such as S&B yet comes up short on new innovations.

Yes id heard about the shifting color of the illumination from other people, too.

This is where patience comes in. The CQBSS has been released in a little quantity with lots of them ending up in big names hand’s to get the advertising (they gave them away for free). The person you got that scope from was mightily disappointed when I broke it to him his scope he just ordered wouldn’t have the dot.

Im not sure if the SB 1-8X will have reticle illumination being day light visible. Its not on my 3-12. But the 1-8X has both the dot and reticle illumination (not at the same time). I know the dot will be day light visible.

And yeah id go through batteries pretty damn quick if I didnt have an auto shut off on my 1-4X SD.

Have you tried a cat tail on any other scopes? Although it sticks out a bit its a great visual and/or tactile feel for what the scope is set at. Just having a huge area on the scope to change magnification doesn’t seem ideal to me. Its like a press check. No need to actually focus on the scope’s tiny little numbers and a dot.

To be honest…mine sucks. If I hadn’t gotten it for a good sized discount I’d be really dissapointed.

Maybe I expected it to work like advertised, with a fast 1.1x daylight illumination, but it was just a mess overall. Leupold will remain as the guys first out of the gate, but they when the dust settles I have a feeling S&B will have a more solid product for a better price point.

Till then I’m still happy I’m near the front of the line for a S&B 1.1-8x. Looks to be a better reticle (Sorry, I’m not paying 600 dollars more for the horus which THEN gets me the daytime dot), better turrets, better zoom ring design, etc, doesn’t require a set of allen wrenches to adjust, etc.

I didn’t get mine for free, like mentioned, so as I look at it, paying a good chunk of change…I just have to be critical about it.

I would prefer allen screws. The coin slots on the 1-4X SD are complete shit. I have to dig in my pocket for a coin that fits and now after doing zero checks and changing the optic from a few guns the slots look about like a bag of pastrami thats been out in the sun for a week. Theres no actual ‘tool’ Ive found besides a stupid quarter or nickel that will work, and then if they’ve set for a while its really hard to turn with such little grip space and leverage on a coin. When Im at home Ive stuck a nickel in a set of channel locks. Stupid on a 2500 optic.

The premier setup being tool less seems pretty good. I worry about allen screws stripping out being so small. I went to fastenal and got a bunch of spares for what I do have that uses them.

The 1-8 from S&B uses a system where once your zero is set you pull up on the turret, set it to zero, and the turret locks back down. I thought this was the case on the 1-4 as well?

No the 1-4X has coin slots. You have the turret cap with slot, the drum, and an inner cam. The cap holds everything in place. There are dials for elevation and windage. So you set the dials to zero, put the cam and drum on, and then tighten it down with the caps.

Its simple to zero but the coin slot caps are a PITA and its embarrasing to pull out a 5 cent piece to ‘fix’ your scope.

Looking on the SB .de site it almost looks like I see an allen head hole on the top turret on the 1-8X.

This pic shows the slots:

You can see how chewed up they are from using coins. The same thing happened to the Gen 1 I had, too.

Never mind it has the cam/drum/cap setup as the 1-4X…

http://longrangesupply.com/images/S&B-1-8x24.jpg

I’ve changed our two Short Dots around on the work guns and re-zeroed them countless of times.

Do the turret caps look a little dinged now, yes. Is it a problem to me, no.

I think ‘suck’ might be a bit strong. Failed to meet expectations is a better way to say it, like a bad blind date.

I think the biggest issue is that it doesn’t do a god job at 1.1 because reticle gets too small and the illumination is usefull only in dark shade. The sad thing is that when I look at it inside with reticle at 1x, it is a pretty good aiming system, since the mil dots aren’t lit and the posts makes a nice big aiming system with the center fairly clear since the reticle is so small.

So if it isn’t good at 1x, I think it makes a great 3-8 scope. In shooting the Pueblo rifle match I was lower third of the group when it was based on unfamiliar shooting positions, but I was top third where there was the fairly straight forward shooting postions. That means to me that I’m the weak link but when I’m not holding it back the CQBSS on that JP upper just rocks. That FFP Mil dot just makes it silly stupid to make hits out to 400 yards, even in some mild wind and targets scattered around a hillside.

The problem to me is there are a lot of great scopes out there if you cut out the 1.1x requirement. First in my thoughts are the 2.5-10NF (no FFP reticle though) or the Great offerings from USO. I’d go with the USO 2-10 set-up and add a RDS at the side.

Or just wait for the S&B or Premier(good luck). That said, they aren’t out yet and are not a known quantity, so it is really hard to condemn Leupold when the others can’t even get theirs out thedoor yet.

Just when I thought Leupold had wrung the suck out of their scopes, they take the Horus/Red Dot out of the scope and put the suck back in.

Here’s hoping that Leupold can figure out a way to boost the output of the reticle at 1x and offer to retrofit the scopes.

Can’t wait to hear Titleist’s thoughts on the S&B scope.

Fair enough, but Leupold certainly pulled a bait and switch with the fact that the illuminated reticle is borderline worthless for anything but low light. As you said if this wasn’t a 1.1x optic it wouldn’t be an issue, but its insufferably slow up close vs a reddot (which was the whole selling point behind the short dot concept).

4000 (for those of us not getting them free) for Leupold’s version of S&B’s Short Dot + 8x optics just doesn’t sit right. It’s not a ‘BAD’ scope, it’s just not particularly well made at least with the version I and ColdDeadHands have.

I think the S&B will be the one to beat, and word is that they’re starting to ship to some dealers in VERY LIMITED quantities and should filter out later this summer (fingers are crossed for my SWFA order). S&B has the track record to back up their product. I’ve never been all that impressed with Leupold’s product, so we’ll see what happens when the dust settles.

I’m disappointed. I was really, really wanting one of the 1.1-8x and thinking about replacing my NXS, but this makes me think that the 2.5-10x NF scopes are the best bang for the buck now.

Hopefully the S&B 1-8x is all it’s hyped up to be (or maybe NF will come out with a 1-8/1-10).

That’s a pretty good summary. Some pics for the reading impaired.

CQBSS on my LMT MWS.

This dog hunts! I’m glad most of the shots at the Pueblo Rifle match are longer - no glorified pistol match as Hoser puts it. Adjustable gas, JP LMOS with rifle length operating system, Geisselle 3gun trigger and the CQBSS.

So if you don’t get the Horus you basically get a slightly gussied up MR/T 1.5-5 at 8x the price, but if you spring for the Horus the illumination works? Leave it to Leupold to screw up a good thing, because the CQBSS as delivered to the military does not have illumination issues.

I can’t make sense of that decision…

Theres no actual ‘tool’ Ive found besides a stupid quarter or nickel that will work, and then if they’ve set for a while its really hard to turn with such little grip space and leverage on a coin. When Im at home Ive stuck a nickel in a set of channel locks. Stupid on a 2500 optic.

Nylon tipped screwdriver?

Well, 1.1-8 and FFP is optically a lot different than 1.5-5, and for the life of me I don’t understand why they left the holographic dot out. The HORUS adds some cost, but if the dot plus the HORUS is $600, how much could the dot cost? Once you are this price point they should have just brought out the more expensive version, at least as an option.

Leupold has tried to make a run at being taken as a serious contender with bringing out this scope, sending out versions to everyone for T&E, bringing in guys from The Hide- and then their marketing department releases this. Dumb. The scope is like Jennifer Aniston, its alright till Angelina Jolie starts whispering in your ear.

Yep, it’s like buying a ferrari and then being told if you want the NON-oblong wheels that’ll be an extra cost.

I’m still excited to see how the S&B shakes out, hopefully soon.

I just meant capability-wise. I understand this scope costs more to produce and was more expensive to develop.

I have a hard time understanding why they would have left out the holographic dot on the TMR version, even though I have no use for the TMR version.

I was pretty surprised the holographic dot wasn’t included with the TMR, and it still has a retail of 4k.

The Ferrari reference is spot on.

However, I would take Jennifer Aniston over Jolie anyday of the week. But alas, I doubt either wants to slum it with my blue collar self. ; )

On paper, the S&B has an amazing combination of features, but god knows when they’ll be released. Hopefully Shot 2012 will bring quite a few new, actually in production, 1-6 and 1-8x scopes.