let's talk about weapon durability

AR/M4 AR General Discussion
1

i’m trying to get a feel for whether i have really bad luck, or if this platform just isn’t as tough as i always thought it was.

i’m hard on my guns… not any harder than happens through the course of training, i dont deliberately beat on my guns or use them for things they’re not supposed to be used for- no prybarring the barrel, no using it as a hammer, no throwing, no driving over 'em with deuces and crap.

broke a pistol grip while rushing… fell on it- manufacturer apologized and replaced

broke a handguard when some douche knocked over leaning against a wall (totally unacceptable)- manufacturer apologized and replaced

cracked the RE ring on a lower, also while rushing, using the weapon to absorb the impact of my descent as taught to me in the military- no replacement, didnt even ask.

had a handguard come already broken in the box- mfr apologized and replaced

and now, this time, i not only bent another handguard, but blew my red dot out about 20MOA in one fell swoop after dropping the weapon from no more than 3 feet, without any extra push- just a straight drop, weapon landed squarely on its side and clattered for about a microsecond. handguard bent, RDS out of commission. the muzzle device on this weapon is permed, so no removing the handguard without fucking up my perm- i did, of course, pull the entire barrel to make sure the receiver wasn’t fucked up, it’s not. who knows about the RDS- i dont know how they’re built, but it seems to me something has to be fucked up for the dot mechanism to move that far without windage and elevation knobs being turned. until i discover otherwise, it’s OOA.

i haven’t called manufacturers on this one yet, but i will tomorrow. since i’m just talking about weapon and component durability in general, manufacturer’s names are no important, and shall be omitted and reserved for another possible thread when all is said and done, including correspondence and final deposition.

so- what are your experiences, thoughts, theories? am i the only one who breaks expensive, “quality” shit all the time? sure seems like it. what have you broke? Should a handguard be able to take a 3 foot drop to concrete? what about an RDS? Should you be able to put your full weight on a pistol grip without it snapping, or should i have started packing around a spare pistol grip years ago? should an RDS, which didnt even hit the ground itself, blow way the fuck out of zero from a 3 foot dead fall?

keep in mind- none of this stuff is cheap. no YHM, no UTG, no bushnell- all the “best” on the market.

2

i know you dont want to drag any companies through the mud, however it could help at least for other people to know their " “best” on the market" stuff is easily damaged. in fact i’ve seen a trend others are probably aware of, when you talk about products on forums, the manufactors take note and watch. this could be a good or bad thing, though i dont think you should worry too much about naming the products at least.

3

i still have faith in the good manufacturers- i’ve had problems with quality shit my whole life, so i feel like i have some kind of curse attached to me that is no fault of theirs. i know that’s irrational, but all the same i will give each the chance to make good on something before bitching about their shit. otherwise, these threads could easily turn into 5 pages of shitting on a good name, with one final post at the end like “oh, in the end they took care of it… hah” which most will never read.

i’ll post, but only after all’s said and done. i want the thread to start with the end.

this thread exists simply to explore weapon and component reliability, and breakability, in general terms. if other want to name experiences with specific manufacturers, that’s perfectly ok- “said and done” experiences are all good.

4

I know by your posts here you don’t use crap. So this puzzles me that your kit is breaking from minimal abuse… interesting to know the brand later.

5

i suppose in the spirit of my own rule, i can include those matters said and done:

both previous handguards were DD M4 models, and both were taken care of.

the pistol grip was an Ergo, and there is a thread on that story here.

the receiver’s manufacturer was never given a chance to make good, so their identity shall remain unknown. my thinking is i probably did something to it off the field that manifested itself during hard use- we’ll never know, it’s been buried in a landfill for a few years by now.

6

Stop using your AR-15 has a sledgehammer LOL just kidding. I have dropped a few rifles hunting with no problems [just don’t tell anybody] but they have all been dropped in the dirt. Crazy cat I used to have knocked my AR off a chair onto the hard wood floor no problems there either. A couple of years back I dropped a EAA Witness 9mm on a concrete floor slipped out of my hand fell maybe 2 feet and landed straight on the hammer breaking it:eek: Saw a older gentleman at the range sighting in a very nice swiss 96 mauser he was putting up some killer groups with that rifle. The range went cold and everybody walked downrange to change targets half way down the range I heard that mauser slide off the rest and land on the concrete slab:eek: They guy tried another group after that and said it wasn’t grouping the same anymore.:frowning: In my humble experience that concrete can be a bitch. YMMV

7

It is expected that a weapons body is built in a way that tolerates the worst of combat conditions. It is unacceptable that a weapon have furniture or a bodily component (ex: upper or lower receiver, etc…) break by an undramatic fall to the ground, or bump into a wall, etc, …or by disassembling the weapon. COUGHwtfar180blowerrecieverbreakingwtfCOUGH

I’m always thinking about the operating system within a weapon. Parts that move violently with much stress being put on them should be designed for absolute durability.

8

i have seen a recent build of yours. though i will not bring up names since you dont want to (completely fair) i cant comment on your RDS as i dont own one. as far as your stock i couldnt tell from the picture but i’m assuming its a dd and as far as my experience goes (fell off tailgate) they are rock solid. of course there are always exceptions to every rule but it still seams odd it bent from a drop (not calling you a liar). i have an aimpoint and have dropped my rifle directly on the aimpoint with no shift. in fact i was trying to prove a point to my dad and his gun show special RDS’s by removing my aimpoint and tossing it to him (he dropped it) and put it back on with no shift. i dont beat my rifle but i dont baby it either. its been in dirt and still has dirt on it, gets cleaned maybe every couple hundred rounds (i think) and generally gets treated like a piece of steel. i would like to point out if i used my rifle to slow a fall, i would probably break something on it, i’m 6’2" 260 so it would likely not like me on it.

9

BKB, just sounds like lots of bad luck, and you’re dealing with it totally appropriately. I feel like Murphy’s Law and I are often married when it comes to consumer products, so I compensate by trying to buy only the best I can afford, and even then I get clobbered sometimes. So I stock up on bolts, springs, etc., just knowing there will come a time. Hate to be the guy to say it, but if you went to a different platform, Murphy would follow you there. Be at peace with the platform…and have a back-up :wink:

10

I think it’s just bad luck… I have beat these weapons up for almost 20 years, starting with the old M16A1 up to the M4 and never even under the hardest conditions in the worst places on earth had anything break.

11

Sounds like you need to switch to a more durable system, like an AK,

or maybe a war hammer. :smiley:

12

make sure said war hammer does not have wood handle!:rolleyes:

13

Read this thread and thought Id post something Ive always wondered and I guess worried about in the back of my mind.
My area of concern is having a single point sling attached to a Burnsed Loop type end plate. Not the end plate loop itself breaking but more of the receiver threads and/or RE threads failing from holding all the weight.
Has anyone ever heard of this happening??

14

nope… and i sling some of my guns from an endplate mount. let this thread stand as testament: if I can do it without damaging the weapon, it’s probably pretty sound method.

well… by the level of activity in this thread, i’ll conclude that i am an anomaly. i really expected at least SOME broken shit stories, but apparently i’m alone. not sure if that makes me feel better or worse…

15

Thanks for responding! Hope you have better luck with your future builds.

16

Look on the bright side, bkb. You would make the Perfect Beta Tester for all the firearms companies/parts mfgrs! Think of the ad campaigns…BKB-proof! If he can’t break it, nobody can!

Or you can always do what USBP379 suggested:

switch to a more durable system, like an AK

17

You cannot use the stock to absorb impact with a collapsible stock like you can with an A1/A2 stock. As it is, this is an out-dated technique and there are much better ways to move into position.

and now, this time, i not only bent another handguard, but blew my red dot out about 20MOA in one fell swoop after dropping the weapon from no more than 3 feet, without any extra push- just a straight drop, weapon landed squarely on its side and clattered for about a microsecond. handguard bent, RDS out of commission. the muzzle device on this weapon is permed, so no removing the handguard without fucking up my perm- i did, of course, pull the entire barrel to make sure the receiver wasn’t fucked up, it’s not. who knows about the RDS- i dont know how they’re built, but it seems to me something has to be fucked up for the dot mechanism to move that far without windage and elevation knobs being turned. until i discover otherwise, it’s OOA.

Completely unacceptable, provided that everything was assembled/mounted correctly by the end-user. I have thrown my guns all over the place and never had one lose zero or bend/break anything. I would expect nothing less. If the optic is an Aimpoint I would definately expect there to be some abnormal issue with workmanship or material failure, and would expect a replacement.

Do you have rail covers on the HG? What do you mean when you say they are bent?

18

What mount for the Aimpoint?

19

the bend is at the fastening mechanism. the handguard itself is not bent, not by appearances at least. the rails are completely covered with XTMs- all of which, including those on the impact side, are still completely undamaged. aside from the handguard bend and the blown out RDS, the only evidence of the fall is a slightly dented brass deflector.

the RDS is mounted on my own special cheap-guy mount- the ring it comes with clamped to a YHM riser. haven’t gotten around to ordering an AD68 for it. i’d be surprised if it was just the mount, though- its a pretty damn solid setup. and movement between the pieces wouldn’t explain the gigantic leap the dot made

20

Dude, I’ve been there, it’s the mount.