So if a bunch of guys here that usually can’t agree on the time of fuckin’ day can find some common ground on how to address these issues, why is it impossible for the 535 numb nuts sitting in Congress and the “pick your own personal adjective” in the White House hammer out a deal?
It ain’t that hard!
how can the gov taking money from someone be a tax CUT !!! you mean the gov decided it wanted to take more from people that work to give to lazy folks who do not like to work !
and get off the bush crap !!! obama has spent more than any president in history !!! he promised to cut it in half instead he made it go way up !!!
and gimme gimme as you say is not giving anything !!!
if I earn it I should keep it !! so the only gimme gimme gimme is the liberals and gov
and funny when you check the liberals never give much of their own money ?
will be fun to see where obama spends us into of course it will be bushes fault in 4 more years !!!
facts are a funny thing that way
Well there are only two options, right? One, Boehner and Obama are bad leaders, or two, they are in on the joke…
Of course, they did play golf together…
bc
Higher taxes?
Every time we give the govt more money they find new ways to spend it.
The problem is that Obama and company are out there touting that “the wealthiest Americans just need to pay a little bit more” and all of our problems magically go away; when the reality is that you could double the absolute dollar value of income taxes (earned and unearned) paid by those making over $250k and not even come close to touching a $T+ deficit.
Plenty. My stepdad is starting his own concrete business from what he learned as a union laborer for 30 years. A kid I worked at a detail shop with while in college now owns his own detail shop. A girl I grew up with got a useless degree and bounced around awhile, found something she loved and now is a personal trainer in her own gym. Another has a flooring company. Another with a garage door business. I know quite a few people that are under 30 with their own business that worked their asses off and now are a small business owner. It’s those evil rich people that employ them for their services , not the poor that can’t afford it. The more business they get, the more people they can employ.
The argument for more jobs needs work?? Really?
America is at its strongest, financially, militarily, globally, etc when the work force is thriving… As a previous poster said, 4%, maybe even a touch higher like 4.2% is the happy medium. The lower this rate goes, say closer to 3.5%, the better the market is for employee’s, wages are forced up as employers compete for workers to fill positions, the requirements to fill these positions tend to ease as well due to this competition.
When the rate goes higher to say 5% the employers have the advantage in the market, wages go down and requirements tighten, as its now the employees that are competing for jobs.
The gov brings in the most revenue when ALL of the citizens are working. The way out of deficits is through job creation, not through stifling job creations by punishing those that create jobs.
It is difficult to measure the cost of the EITC to the U.S. federal government. At the most basic level, federal revenues are decreased by the lower, and often negative, tax burden on the working poor for which the EITC is responsible. In this basic sense, the cost of the EITC to the Federal Government was more than $36 billion in 2004.
I think there is a basic disconnect here.
I am talking about the jobs created by small businesses that HIRE people to do concrete work or put flowers in boxes or clean offices. Sure, the owner might be making $250K, but the WORKERS are making much less. And are actually net drains on the tax base under our current system.
You, I think, are thinking every small business job created is created by the owner(s). Which isn’t the case.
bc
True and is what adds fuel to the fire for people that are NOT educated.
The left is fantastic at painting the picture that Republicans are ALL Rich and are riding the backs of the poor and middle class. This is of course false.
One of the biggest lies told to the voter is that Romney didn’t pay any taxes (or just 15%). I am not sure why people have never heard of capital gains taxes before, but it appears to be a black hole in Americans knowledge. Romney PAID 39% (or whatever was the HIGHEST tax rate at the time/per that year) and then invested it into mutual funds, etc. When took a dividend, he had to pay an additional 15% on those profits. If I hear one more person tell me that Romney only paid 15% in taxes, I am killing a kitten.
Next rant. Why can’t low income to middle class folks realize that they might not be in that income level the rest of their lives??? As you gain experience or education, you typically go up in salary. This means that at some point in your life, YOU WILL be in that high tax rate. When I was a lowly E-2 in the NAV, I never though; “Hmmm, I bet I am going to be making $12k a year for the rest of life.” :rolleyes:
The US has one of the HIGHEST business tax rates in the world. Most of Europe and CA have figured out that if they lower this rate (15% is now the norm) that companies will hire more people and be able to compete better in the global economy. As an LLC, I pay about 50% in Federal and State taxes and yes, I am one of the “evil” rich people that makes over $250k. The problem (again that most Americans don’t seem to realize) is that I don’t actually put $250K in my pocket every year. I take a fraction of this income for personal use and roll the profits back into my company so that I can stock more inventory. So those Americans that need to “Pay their fair share” are actually business owners that have LLC’s and their COMPANIES profits appear as their personal incomes (even though they don’t actually take a $250K salary). This is the problem.
If the US Govt were to lower my business taxes to 15%, I would have at least 1-2 NEW employees. They would make somewhere between $30k-$50k a year. This is how I see trickledown economics.
C4
Bingo!
C4
Yes, everyone should have skin in the game.
This IMHO, is the key to everything.
As long as an anonymous “someone else” is paying for your dinner, you will order the biggest steak on the menu, at the nicest restaurant in town, whether you can eat it or not.
When it is coming out of your own pocket, you might be just as happy to eat a cheeseburger at McDonalds.
I think EVERYONE needs to feel what it is like to see a % of the money that they could use for themselves, go to be used by the government.
People would be much more critical of what it is spent on and far less likely be behind increases in entitlements.
I think the conservatives need to focus on what we get for the taxes we pay. If Obama weren’t black we could portray the govt as a drug addict that will say anything to get more ‘drugs’ (money). Try to do that now and the howls of racism , never mind Barry’s drug using and dealing history, would drown out the message.
With regards to Romney’s effective tax rates, we don’t know what he paid (or didn’t). You assert Romney “paid” the highest marginal tax rate and subsequently invested that money, which is now subject to capital gains. There is no evidence to support that. The compensation packages provided to many in the venture capital/hedge fund world are structured in such a way as to avoid marginal tax rates and are subject solely to capital gains taxes. You don’t know what he paid and neither do I. But the smart money says he NEVER paid the highest marginal tax rates on his compensation from Bain Capital.
Run, kitty, run!
As for your second argument, while it is true that folks can move out of one income bracket into another, the simple fact is that income mobility is the United States has never been more stagnant. The economic reality is that those at the very highest income levels are seeing their share of the pie increase exponentially while lower and middle class incomes have remained stagnant for decades.
Dude, you are so clueless it is painful. If he took ordinary income from Bain Capital structured as empty soda cans, he’d still have to pay income tax on it.
Do you think the IRS is that stupid? I have dealt with distributions before bro, and believe me, they are taxed as income.
Tell us about these “structures” that aren’t income so the rest of the country can avoid - er sorry Mr. IRS, I didn’t mean “avoid” as that is a felony - not pay income taxes. Come on, we’re waiting. 
FACT - he paid the top marginal rate on his income, there is no way to escape it.
FACT - he paid again on the Capital Gains when he realized them. There is no way to escape it.
bc
He seems to have been paying about $3-5million a year in taxes on capital gains. That means his capital gains were about $25 million- and how much capital are we talking about to make these gains? $175-300 million? I’ve seen estimates at $250million for his wealth. The top bracket is at about $0.4million ($379,000). Spread the money he made to get to a $250million nest egg over a couple of life times and he still would have paid the top tax rate.
Sorry, but no. He paid taxes on his PERSONAL income. Then invested that into mutual funds (or whatever) and this is where the 15% argument (That Dems used against him) comes from.
As for your second argument, while it is true that folks can move out of one income bracket into another, the simple fact is that income mobility is the United States has never been more stagnant. The economic reality is that those at the very highest income levels are seeing their share of the pie increase exponentially while lower and middle class incomes have remained stagnant for decades.
This might be true (within the last 4 years), but the ENTIRE time in the US history, this wasn’t the case and I am prime example of it.
C4
And that coorelates to the increase in the govt regulations and bureaucracy. It used to be that a good idea and a business plan were what you needed for a business, now it is all kinds of paper work, permits and HR crap that don’t add anything to the economy- except jobs to help people fill out the paper work.
I’d much rather have a smaller piece of the American apple pie than the mud pie in India or the cat pie in China… or the stale croisant from France…
And if his compensation was structured as “carried interest”?
The simple fact is that neither you nor I know what he paid and the fact that he adamantly refused to release his tax records despite appeals from both his own party and the Democrats speaks volumes.
Romney made the cold calculus that releasing the returns would do his campaign far more damage than stonewalling. And I CAN do that math.
It’s pointless to argue hypotheticals because the election is over and none of us will ever see his returns now.
Agree - both on carried interest (if so means he wasn’t paid at all until later and then at long-term cap rates) and hypotheticals.
bc
It should also be noted that Governor Romney was asked repeatedly during the course of his presidential campaign if the “carried interest” loophole was one of those which he intended to close as part of his tax reform/balanced budget plan.
He never answered the question.